Filter to increase the brightness/crispness of the general Virus sound

[namnibor]

Originally Posted by bluesmoose

That is nice.

I have seen screenshots of the Blofeld with linear and non-linear filter envelope attacks.
I looked in the manual and it has envelope attack, decay, sustain and release as mod destinations for filter env, amp env, env3 and env4.
So, if they can draw the modified envelopes, maybe Virus Control will someday.

...Or, just buy a Blofeld! I have both Virus KC and Blofeld Kybd and they are both individual beasts with their own personalities and deeply programmable.

Why be so defensive and as well as dismissive when you can actually learn a lot on this forum's past posts via searches and studying the whole user manual as well as Access's "Programming Analog Synthesizers", which is a free download and has exercises that are specific to the Virus architecture?

Lastly, what's up with people with a new to them synth, that they immediately bemoan "what it could-a/should-a be" and complain it's not as bright as a Nord, in this case?

Sarcasm and sardonic humor should be taken in-stride if you see where what stance you immediately came from before actually getting to know your instrument in and out.

Tweakhead, among others on this forum, have incredible insight, experience, and programming advice that is shared here and being dismissive actually says much more about your composure than anything else.

I was being kind and as always, please read aforementioned manual and guide for the Virus and of course, experiment by dismantling programs to see how they are composed because every synth is different.

[bluesmoose]

Originally Posted by namnibor

...Or, just buy a Blofeld! I have both Virus KC and Blofeld Kybd and they are both individual beasts with their own personalities and deeply programmable.

Why be so defensive and as well as dismissive when you can actually learn a lot on this forum's past posts via searches and studying the whole user manual as well as Access's "Programming Analog Synthesizers", which is a free download and has exercises that are specific to the Virus architecture?

Lastly, what's up with people with a new to them synth, that they immediately bemoan "what it could-a/should-a be" and complain it's not as bright as a Nord, in this case?

Sarcasm and sardonic humor should be taken in-stride if you see where what stance you immediately came from before actually getting to know your instrument in and out.

Tweakhead, among others on this forum, have incredible insight, experience, and programming advice that is shared here and being dismissive actually says much more about your composure than anything else.

I was being kind and as always, please read aforementioned manual and guide for the Virus and of course, experiment by dismantling programs to see how they are composed because every synth is different.

Re Blofeld...
MBTC questioned whether something like that could be implemented in Virus Control.
He said ultranova could do it.
Perhaps I wasn't clear, but I was trying to say that since the Blofled (and Ultranova) could do it, maybe there wasn't a technical reason that it would not be possible to implement in Virus Control.


re Tweakhead, among others on this forum, have incredible insight, experience, and programming advice that is shared here and being dismissive actually says much more about your composure than anything else.

Perhaps, but his first post in this thread did have any of that.



It really is amazing... How a simple discussion turns into a religious "attack the new guys" thread.

.

[bluesmoose]

Here is your first post in this thread. Where does it offer tips for making brighter sounds on a Virus ?

Originally Posted by TweakHead

might be "cumbersome", but we're talking "recursive modulation" for a synthesizer that was released in 2004 folks!

and if you look at it, the B could do it! and so could the Virus A!

the Nord Lead can't even invert the polarity on the filter envelope, even on Nord Lead 4! It does sound good and very crisp and clear on highs. but if you praise that sound, why would you go for a Virus C - that is known for a more darker tone - instead of it?

but seriously, the Nord can't adjust the curve of envelopes! period! recursive modulation in the Virus is a bliss that extends it's options far beyond anything you can touch with the Lead.

this topic was about character: someone bought a Virus and likes the Nord sound better! Answer: you've made a bad choice! Try before buy! The envelope's curves have nothing to do with the kind of byte and highs you can get out of a Nord Lead. That's just the Nord sound - and some analogue machine's sound to.

The Ultranova... Well, it's just much more modern, isn't it? But there's plenty stuff the Virus C or B can do that it can't folks. More then the other way around.

Now, if we're talking multi-stage envelopes on some software instruments, ok, nothing the Virus can touch! Hardware? Can do almost anything that comes to my mind!

There's another way to change the slopes of envelopes (I remember Timo posted the work around once): it's using the LFO's in envelope mode, single hit (you know the deal), pick your wave, change the "contour", do whatever it is you like to it...

Compare that to what others said:


feedingear suggested cutting 300-400 Hz.

Originally Posted by feedingear

The virus has 3 eqs on board.

Interestingly, I always thought the Nord sounded thin and harsh - part of its appeal as a counter to the warmer, rich and thick mid sounds the Virus produces.

If you want that brighter crispier sound, cut around 3-400hz to remove boxiness and boost at 3-7k for presence...

chimney chop mentioned reverb. So, I thought I might try using a touch of reverb with the smallest room, shortest reflections.

Originally Posted by chimney chop

use the eq and/or reverb coloration to brighten the tone.

seriously, the virus c has its faults but sounding "fake/plastic" certainly isn't among them.

MBTC mentioned parallel filters, which got me thinking that I should try using with parallel filter, with the 2nd filter open a bit more but with the filter balance more toward filter 1, using the filter balance try to mix in some addtional harmonics.

Originally Posted by MBTC

This thread is interesting to me, because of how often I hear the Virus C sounds better than the newer Virus models, and that the filters are one of the big selling points of the Virus (as are the parallel filter processors on the DSP).

I personally find that as long as filters are flexible/editable enough, they in themselves are not really a pro/con to sound design. I have seen some cases where some soft synths do not offer much flexibility on things like non-linear curve or contour options or other subtle characteristics which can make it harder, for example, to put the right amount of "bite" on a pluck sound.

Does the Virus give you flexibility with regard to slope/curve of the filter? As others pointed out, overall brightness of the sound is something I'd tend to solve more with EQ. I use filters more for sculpting the core characteristics of the sound than for warmness or brightness, but of course that's a matter of personal habit.

I find it amazing that I must defend giving thanks to others.

[bluesmoose]

Originally Posted by namnibor

.
Lastly, what's up with people with a new to them synth, that they immediately bemoan "what it could-a/should-a be" and complain it's not as bright as a Nord, in this case?

That was not me. That was Rusty. Complain to him.

[TweakHead]

So as to make things clear: how can you say that someone suggesting to use the Virus's EQ is constructive and someone saying you can extend it's use with modulation to be sensitive to the filter's position is not? My first post? Seriously, what's wrong with that? If you don't have any respect for other people's opinion and the way they express themselves, then that's your problem, not mine.

But what puzzles me the most is why on earth would someone dismiss my tips about making the EQ follow the pitch. You may not like the way I write, that's fine, but I'm still a person that took his time to answer this thread so if you don't find it useful, that's fine, but making some sort of "thanks list" and living me out - really says more about you then me. You see, before and after, I just stated the obvious.

So it isn't constructive. How come, please enlighten me, there's an EQ called "Surfer EQ" that does exactly the same thing? It's pitch sensitive - yeah, like EQ keytrack, just like I said. It costs money, it's relevant, and all of that. You think my opinion of the Virus and Lead and Novation doesn't suit your taste? Fine. What's that to do with me? I've used all of them. I know what I'm saying and if you don't like it, again, that's fine, but behaving like a child won't get you nowhere - let alone with me. Kicking me out? Who the fuck do you think you are? Do you honestly think I feel even slightly intimidated with your troll manners here? Real world is like this: I say whatever I want and you have to live with it. Did I make this perfectly clear to you?

Now, tweak your synthesizers more and talk less. The last advice you're getting from me.

If you do happen to try the stuff I told you, you'll see how much "constructive" my posts actually where. You see, in the Virus the EQ freq is a selectable destination for modulation. And using the soft knobs (or other controllers), you can set it so that turning a knob will modulate this parameters in relation to each other. Because boosting a specific EQ band is just that, it's static. It may or may not sound good when you sweep the filter. The tips I gave you are a workaround that fact and you can actually get to places with your synthesizer you haven't imagined to be possible. It's all there already. The thing about sound design tips is like this: you must try first and talk after. If you happen to have any doubt in your mind about anything just PM me. This is a clean and honest forum where people expose their ideas without getting into stupid Ego fights. Let's keep it that way. If your nice to people, people are nice to you. Here and everywhere. Don't expect to come here and start a war with me. On my behalf this is over! You read me? Feel free to complain to whoever you want to. I trust that people here do know me for what my posts say of me.

[TweakHead]

You have "keyflw" in your sources list (translates into "note played in) and "EqMidFreq" and other relevant parameters as destinations. That's what you'd use to make the EQ follow the pitch - sort like Surfer EQ does.

Imagine you do that but you still want, say, when closing up an High Pass filter to drop the gain of this EQ accordingly. You can by making whatever it is you're using to modulate or control the cutoff position of this filter also modulate "EQMidGain" destination.

This is just a way of thinking about sound design: you're correlating various parameters at once, making them respond to each other while still being easy to control.

Did I mention some people like Skrillex automate an EQ band to create the mid range bass sounds that made him famous? Right...

I seem to have mentioned on my first post that Timo's written a great post about a workaround for getting the envelopes to be as linear as possible. Search for it and read through it.

[bluesmoose]

Originally Posted by TweakHead

So as to make things clear: how can you say that someone suggesting to use the Virus's EQ is constructive and someone saying you can extend it's use with modulation to be sensitive to the filter's position is not? My first post? Seriously, what's wrong with that? If you don't have any respect for other people's opinion and the way they express themselves, then that's your problem, not mine.

But what puzzles me the most is why on earth would someone dismiss my tips about making the EQ follow the pitch. You may not like the way I write, that's fine, but I'm still a person that took his time to answer this thread so if you don't find it useful, that's fine, but making some sort of "thanks list" and living me out - really says more about you then me. You see, before and after, I just stated the obvious.

So it isn't constructive. How come, please enlighten me, there's an EQ called "Surfer EQ" that does exactly the same thing? It's pitch sensitive - yeah, like EQ keytrack, just like I said. It costs money, it's relevant, and all of that. You think my opinion of the Virus and Lead and Novation doesn't suit your taste? Fine. What's that to do with me? I've used all of them. I know what I'm saying and if you don't like it, again, that's fine, but behaving like a child won't get you nowhere - let alone with me. Kicking me out?

Who the fuck do you think you are?

Do you honestly think I feel even slightly intimidated with your troll manners here? Real world is like this: I say whatever I want and you have to live with it. Did I make this perfectly clear to you?

Now, tweak your synthesizers more and talk less. The last advice you're getting from me.

If you do happen to try the stuff I told you, you'll see how much "constructive" my posts actually where. You see, in the Virus the EQ freq is a selectable destination for modulation. And using the soft knobs (or other controllers), you can set it so that turning a knob will modulate this parameters in relation to each other. Because boosting a specific EQ band is just that, it's static. It may or may not sound good when you sweep the filter. The tips I gave you are a workaround that fact and you can actually get to places with your synthesizer you haven't imagined to be possible. It's all there already. The thing about sound design tips is like this: you must try first and talk after. If you happen to have any doubt in your mind about anything just PM me. This is a clean and honest forum where people expose their ideas without getting into stupid Ego fights. Let's keep it that way. If your nice to people, people are nice to you. Here and everywhere. Don't expect to come here and start a war with me. On my behalf this is over! You read me? Feel free to complain to whoever you want to. I trust that people here do know me for what my posts say of me.

No where in your first post did you say anything about altering the EQ based on pitch.
As I said, when I posted the thanks to the others, I had not read your second post.

I will say thank you for the programming info in your subsequent posts. Yes, Surfer EQ does sound interesting.

Originally Posted by TweakHead

This is a clean and honest forum where people expose their ideas without getting into stupid Ego fights.

What? You cursed at me! Not once, but twice now.

Originally Posted by TweakHead

I say whatever I want and you have to live with it.

But, this same rule does not apply to me?
I say whatever I want and you have to live with it. Yes?

[TweakHead]

Let's give this a rest, shall we? It will go nowhere.

I do find that even with digital - or virtual analogue - instruments, there's a lot of diversity in the character. I actually see that as a good thing, to have diversity of sound in the products on offer. The Virus (at least until the C) were known to have a kind of dark tone, whereas the Nord Lead was more clear, thin, but with presence on the highs.

There is however, despite the fact each machine has it's own character that to some extent is the barrier you can never trespass, there are of course ways to stretch that as close as possible to the sound of the other. Some options were presented here for that. Not only that but, obviously, for plenty more uses in sound design, with multiple simultaneous control or modulation of parameters. That's plenty of fuel.

With a new synthesizer on your hands, how come does it feel like your more into law?

I'm well aware of what I say. I also know what I meant with things I say. I know people can misinterpret something. There's relativity and all of that. But some people - I also know that - will pick on you for no reason at all and seem to have nothing else to do then to pick on you. Even, with a brand new instrument sitting around that could make them dive into the realms of the unknown (each his own limits) and sort of bring something back in the form of frequency content, vibrations, whatever... all is better then moaning really. what are you trying to achieve with this? what are you trying to prove? are you compensating for something else? does it work?

[Rusty]

Thank you all for your replies! Everything has been constructive for me.

I have many things to test on my Virus to push it to a new level now. =)

feedingear: Thanks, I´ll try cutting the EQ!

chimney: I agree, fake/plastic sound is maybe a wrong description to explain the sound. More of a coating above that supresses the sounds as I see it.

bluesmoose: Thanks, I´ll try your tips!

MBTC: I think I put it the wrong way from my first post. It may not be the filters I do have issues with, it´s more of a coating above the sounds that supresses them.

Tweakhead: Thanks. About the Nord example, I do not think the general sound of it is better than a Virus, it´s just that I like the crispy sound of it. The Virus sound is incredible as we´ll know, no doubt about that.
Also, I´ll try your great tip regarding making the EQ following a filter movement: "assign a soft knob (or mod wheel or whatever) to make the EQ band's frequency move with the filter cuttoff (sort like EQ key tracking, made with modulation! handy uh?) if it doesn't sound pleasant enough yet, then keep on fine tunning it: the boost in the EQ could decrease or increase as filter cutoff gets higher, or the other way around. pretty easy to set up on the Matrix."

namnibor: (The Virus is not new to me. I´ve had it since 2007. I guess it´s a keeper since I find it very good and inspiring synth. It would be great if there was a way to push the sound a level and this thread has many good tips that I´ll try. )


I would like to add some things to clear it up a bit:

I do really like my Virus, though I did sound very negative in my first post in this thread. Since I bought the Virus six years ago, I´ve had some great moments with it and it has been very inspiring to me. I have accomplished great things with it, and it has been a very good workhorse for several projects. I´ve done some tracks where the Virus is just perfect. I know for certain that a Nord, as I mentioned as an example, doesn't reach the deepness of a Virus.

The Virus has been hard to get rid of, so I´ve kept it. The possibilities are very inspiring, and just by looking at it, turning some knobs and play around makes me get ideas that I can use with other equipment. I think that the creativity the Virus gives me, is one good reason not to sell it and keep learning it´s possibilites.

Thank you all again