Virus Vs JP-8000..which basic waveform is fatter?

[ben crosland]

Originally Posted by F5D

And the TI will NOT replace the JP80x0! I have said this before too. Virus sounds great but in some cases the real JP supersaw + the JP 2-pole filter sounds better and virus cannot make that sound because the virus filter sounds completely different and the oscillators lack the highest frequencies, no matter how much you boost them even with sony oxford eq.

As I explained before, the HyperSaw is *not* the same as stacking 9 Virus saws together - they are a new oscillator design. The character of each basic saw is very similar, but the energy in the very top is definitely better.

So, from what I can tell so far, the Virus TI will be able to do a perfectly good emulation of the JP Supersaw patches, but the main point is, it will be able to do a lot more besides, courtesy of the subs, internal sync and modulation routings. I could also mention the fact that due to the TI's greatly increased polyphony, the patches which use so many saws don't have to be restricted to leads and basses..

[technomonster]

i am still a newbie,

but i was always amazed at the saw sounds of JP-8080 AND JP-8000.

i was as well, staggered by the demos of ACCESS VIRUS C on the access site, which showcased the the virus as a whole.

however when playing on a PRO TOOLs software version of VIRUS C, as well as hearing the best demos of VIRUS C doing saws, i realised that they could not quite equal the JP-8080 saws but gave a different version , lighter, which of course could be used when neccesary.

i was always going to just!!!!buy an ACCESS VIRUS C, because of finance and that JP-8080 was no loonger made.
and it was upsetting me that i would miss out on the JP-8080 saw capabilities.
Luckily someone sold me their JP-8080, and i am increadibly delighted.

now i will have both.
i will soon buy the TI, no matter what its saws sound like, or maybe just the ACCESS VIRUS C (Its fantastic in its way),

[Timo]

mmmm, why has Roland never come up with a Super VA? Why did they never expand further on the JP80x0 concept, like the Virus did with the Virus A?

[F5D]

Originally Posted by ben crosland

As I explained before, the HyperSaw is *not* the same as stacking 9 Virus saws together - they are a new oscillator design. The character of each basic saw is very similar, but the energy in the very top is definitely better.

So, from what I can tell so far, the Virus TI will be able to do a perfectly good emulation of the JP Supersaw patches, but the main point is, it will be able to do a lot more besides, courtesy of the subs, internal sync and modulation routings. I could also mention the fact that due to the TI's greatly increased polyphony, the patches which use so many saws don't have to be restricted to leads and basses..

I believe that the hypersaw will be a good oscillator waveform, I don't deny that.

In fact the JP's supersaw is not 7 detuned saw waves. If I remember right, Roland used some other tricks to get the sound (phase modulation or something). The manual says that "it sounds like there were 7 saw waves playing together". But altough you could emulate the JP supersaw oscillator "perfectly" (which I still doubt) the sound will not be even near the same because THE FILTER is the most important thing in synthesizer and gives the synth the character. And the virus filter sounds completely different from jp's creamy & fat filter. I guess that people @ Roland didn't include the JP80x0 filter in V-synth (am I right?) because they don't know anything about their synths and why they were so good. It seems that they bring those good synths out sometimes by accident. Like the TB303 was meant to be a bass guitar emulation but became an acid heaven. The same goes for JP8000. It was meant to be a Jupiter emulation but became a total trance heaven with different kind of sound.

It doesn't help altough the virus has a "minimoog" kind of filter because it's not the best one to use with supersaw style sounds. There's still no other synth filter which sounds as good with the supersaw oscillators than the real JP filter. You will notice the difference when you slowly open the cutoff and there's a supersaw lead playing and arpeggio for example. That is what I call an uplifting sound. Virus excels with different kinds of sounds on the moment but I don't believe that the hypersaw will change everything. Alot depends on the filter too.

Edit: Timo, I have been thinking of the same too that why didn't Roland ever continue the succesful JP8000 but it seems that they are grazy people and sometimes don't even know what they're doing. If I worked at Roland as a synth engineer I would immediately use the superb algorithms of the JP8000. I would also suggest that Roland brought out some of the analog monosynths too, like TB303 and SH101 with midi control. I guess those would sell like grazy. A JP8000 mk2 would also be a success I think. But those bastards don't even seem to know for what most of the people use their classic synths. What a shame.

[Timo]

Originally Posted by ben crosland

As I explained before, the HyperSaw is *not* the same as stacking 9 Virus saws together - they are a new oscillator design. ....

Hi Ben, so what does it do, then, other than stacking simple, mathematically-correct saws? Does it employ the waveform modulated-phase trick I mentioned in the other thread last year, and earlier in this thread, to thicken the sound without detuning? By using this technique, you could effectively make any oscillator into a super oscillator, ie. super-square (as per Virus TI), or even super-wavetable, lol.

PS > Regards the NAMM video you made for Sonicstate this year, did you have the Moog filter (perhaps the 1-pole version) locked in at the same time, or was it using the Virus' basic filter left wide-open? Were there any other effects going on, like distortion or saturation or the like?

[ben crosland]

Originally Posted by Timo

So what does it do, then, other than stacking simple, mathematically-correct saws? Does it employ the waveform modulated-phase trick I mentioned, to thicken the sound without detuning?

No - they are detuned saws, like it says on the tin. However, the detune is applied a little differently in such a way that it suits multiple waves better than can be achieved with the classic Virus oscillators.

[ben crosland]

Originally Posted by Timo

PS > Regards the NAMM video you made for Sonicstate this year, did you have the Moog filter (perhaps the 1-pole version) locked in at the same time, or was it using the Virus' basic filter left wide-open? Were there any other effects going on, like distortion or saturation or the like?

I can't remember to be honest - my brain was pretty phase-modulated by the time that video was shot I think I was running them clean, but I can't be certain..

[Wandering Kid]

with regards to some samples - ill drop a little message over at the production forums over at tranceaddict.com and see if they can get a good crop of samples for you to reference off. they know their supersaws. and they luv em. and theres a lorra JP users down there (of course! its trance!)

the hypersaw is really really peaking my curiosity now. the JP sells off the back of the supersaw alone practically - its the one reason why they still sell on average for higher prices on ebay than virus b desktops. im saving the pennies now just in case. i wanted a nord lead 2x. but if i work summer, forget the lead 2x and sell my virus b - thats nearly on for a TI right?

[Wandering Kid]

http://www.rb2k1.com/sound-design/

check that one out. rb2k1 is a sound designer on tranceaddict.com. hes pretty good with a JP. he also made an ensemble for reaktor which emulates the jp8000 and its probably the best software emulation ive heard. theres a 320 kbps demo mp3 on his front page which showcases his jp80x0 patches playing midis of famous trance tunes.

if you can make a virus sound like that or (gulp) better, i will hallelujah till the cows come home since i will never have to get into another ebay bidding war over a jp8080 ever again. woot!

[MADSTATION]

www.madstation.net/ben_demo.wav

Sorry it's a wave file, but it doesnt suffers from mp3 compression hah
(my soundforge mp3 export has expired)

Just playing a simple sequence from a performance on a jp8080...then removing effects(delay and chorus), then removing the detune and finally using just 1 supersaw osc...then putting the fx back in, playing with the detune value, etc.

Watch out @ the end of the clip, the volume is considerably louder(I reloaded the patch)

If these sounds can now be done with the TI, I will buy no less than 2!
hah