I has a confession. [rant]

[teethofgold]

celestry, you hit it spot on!

[XLR8A]

Originally Posted by LivePsy

Hi XLR8R, I knew I wasn't disagreeing with you about Mac and Macbook Pro but you did kind of class you and me as a mindless fanboys for having them

Once again you're missing the point, reading my posts would be a good idea for a start, in order to avoid this sort of misunderstandings in the future. And BTW, i don't have either Mac Pro or Macbook Pro, i'm using a custom made Quad Core workstation running OSX. And from the results of the tests i've made earlier this year, it significantly outperforms basically any Mac on the market except the 8 Core Mac Pro.

Originally Posted by LivePsy

My point (wherever that may be) is that buying PC hardware because it is cheaper is not smarter unless you know what you are getting. Walking along aisles of notebooks and comparing them is not choice, they all sacrifice quality to stay cheap.

Buying anything isn't smart if you don't know what you're getting, doesn't matters if you do it because it's cheaper or for any other reason. Like buying and iMac only because it's more expensive (and supposedly must be of a higher quality) but without knowing the tech specs, especially the most interesting tech specs Apple doesn't wants you to find out in order to avoid disappointing you.

Originally Posted by LivePsy

Also saying you can run Mac on any old PC hardware is fine IF you want to the risk - it is after all not supported.

Did I really said old PC hardware did I? This is interesting. Can you please explain to me, what risk am I taking at running OSX on my PC as smooth as it runs right now for over a year without any noticeable problems at all?

UNIX and BSD Kernel isn't something Apple invented specifically for their computers, it fully supports a wide range of hardware including even AMD processors that it's not "suppose" to run on. The fact that OSX isn't officially supported by Apple on non Apple computers, doesn't means it cannot run on non Apple computers as smooth as it runs on Apple ones, and fully support the hardware that UNIX was originally meant to support long time before Apple even thought about starting using it in their operating systems.

[LivePsy]

Originally Posted by Celestry

I wonder how many I.T. guys are on here that use MACs for music because they can't be bothered with Windows at home?

That would be me too. I also think that Windows is a great environment for the person who wants an intellectual challenge, well let's be honest, the smart-arse who likes to show off how smart they are to everyone. Computers were made to do things. Computer misfunction is not interesting in the least. Its disappointing to see so much discussion on these forums about how the computer doesn't work. Too much like work to me and as I find in my business, too much focus on problems and not enough on solutions.

Everyone should have the opportunity to try OS X as an operating system, and in an unbiased way. Give it a change, you might like it.

Cheers,
B

[LivePsy]

Originally Posted by XLR8A

Can you please explain to me, what risk am I taking at running OSX on my PC as smooth as it runs right now for over a year without any noticeable problems at all?

UNIX and BSD Kernel isn't something Apple invented specifically for their computers, it fully supports a wide range of hardware including even AMD processors that it's not "suppose" to run on. The fact that OSX isn't officially supported by Apple on non Apple computers, doesn't means it cannot run on non Apple computers as smooth as it runs on Apple ones, and fully support the hardware that UNIX was originally meant to support long time before Apple even thought about starting using it in their operating systems.

You're really trying to argue for the sake of argument now. By all means use OS X hacked for your PC. But also please don't tell everyone they should too. As my previous post immediately above suggests, tinkering with computers is not really a useful endeavour. Using them to do something creative is far more interesting.

Cheers,
B

[XLR8A]

Originally Posted by LivePsy

You're really trying to argue for the sake of argument now. By all means use OS X hacked for your PC. But also please don't tell everyone they should too. As my previous post immediately above suggests, tinkering with computers is not really a useful endeavour. Using them to do something creative is far more interesting.

Cheers,
B

I'm only asking you what risk am I taking at running OSX on my PC as smooth as it runs right now for over a year without any noticeable problems at all. You said it takes some risk, and i'm curious what risk you're talking about, i'm intrigued.

Btw, i don't use a hacked OSX. I installed it from original retail CD that i paid for, and then updated to the latest version via software update. Exactly like people install XP or Vista on their Macs via Bootcamp.

I love OSX, it enhances my workflow and creativity, so instead of tinkering with computers i can concentrate more on my work.

[XLR8A]

Originally Posted by LivePsy

Computer misfunction is not interesting in the least. Its disappointing to see so much discussion on these forums about how the computer doesn't work.

If that was the case, huge forums such as macfixit wouldn't exist. Have you seen what's going on those forums? It's a shitstorm of technical problems of all sorts, and people complain all the time about Apple support forum deleting their posts and banning users. The amount of problems people having with Macbooks is beyond ridiculous.

[LivePsy]

Originally Posted by XLR8A

I'm only asking you what risk am I taking at running OSX on my PC as smooth as it runs right now for over a year without any noticeable problems at all. You said it takes some risk, and i'm curious what risk you're talking about, i'm intrigued.

You are not permitted to install OSX on non-Apple hardware. You cannot get helpdesk support from your hardware supplier or Apple if you strike any problems. The 'risk' is that if you have a problem you have no recourse except to complain on the Innernet. Most likely this gets posted as 'all Macs suck' because the poster didn't mention the tiny fact that they did what was never intended. Installing OS X used to be impossible, and then some guys worked out tricks to get it to work. Its a trick, nothing more. If the trick works for you then great. In the same way, you can install a thousand variants of Linux. Great. Bet you don't really do anything useful on the Linux box though (music wise).

I consider buying a computer to be a package of hardware and software in which the manufacturer offers some support on both. In the case of Apple you have support for the hardware, OS and the DAW if you use Logic Studio.

OK, you are right. You can install OS X on a PC. But I question the value in doing it. I consider professional support of value, especially if you are making money out of your computer. I'm also wary of being sucked into the computer technology as an end in itself. I've met many IT people who are obsessed with the game, whereas I think the aim of IT is just to get things to work.

Cheers,
B

[LivePsy]

Originally Posted by XLR8A

If that was the case, huge forums such as macfixit wouldn't exist. Have you seen what's going on those forums? It's a shitstorm of technical problems of all sorts, and people complain all the time about Apple support forum deleting their posts and banning users. The amount of problems people having with Macbooks is beyond ridiculous.

I was alarmed with the problems of the graphics on the macbooks, and if I can criticise Apple at all its the far too frequent refreshes and obviously not enough testing first. Also, the 10.5.7 update killed my M3 USB connection just when I was about to record some stuff. Most annoying. Worst of all is I bought my macbook pro 1 year after 10.5 and then realised that the audio interface and TI still didn't have the drivers for another few months. Now THAT was annoying

But I do think that forums shouldn't be a gauge of real life experiences. Learn to work around these problems. Have disk image backups and make them frequently. Have a backup plan in case one particular piece of hardware gear isn't working. Have an old PC around so you can use that if nothing else works. Protect yourself from being totally stuffed with a problem. This is a positive strategy, whereas complaints on forums are well, complaints...

Cheers,
B

[XLR8A]

Originally Posted by LivePsy

You are not permitted to install OSX on non-Apple hardware. You cannot get helpdesk support from your hardware supplier or Apple if you strike any problems. The 'risk' is that if you have a problem you have no recourse except to complain on the Innernet. Most likely this gets posted as 'all Macs suck' because the poster didn't mention the tiny fact that they did what was never intended.

At the moment, installing OSX on a PC is not illegal exactly as much as it's not legal, because Apple EULA ≠ the law. Helpdesk? Why would i waste my time on something like this? Regarding warranty and support, the biggest difference here is when you purchase a computer from Apple you get 1 year limited warranty with it, and i got 3 years warranty for my Asus motherboard, 5 years warranty for Seagate hard drives, and unlimited warranty for the Intel CPU. Doesn't matters what OS i'm using, it doesn't affects the warranty for my hardware in any shape or form. And as long as it's under warranty, in case i have a faulty hardware device i can always send it to where i bought it and get a replacement. This is the only support i need, and i have it.

Originally Posted by LivePsy

Installing OS X used to be impossible, and then some guys worked out tricks to get it to work. Its a trick, nothing more. If the trick works for you then great.

It's exactly the same trick as the guys at Apple "worked out" how to install Vista or XP on their Macs. Same trick, nothing more nothing less. Technically speaking: in order to install Win on a Mac you have to run BIOS emulation, and in order to install OSX on a PC you have to run EFI emulation.

Originally Posted by LivePsy

I consider buying a computer to be a package of hardware and software in which the manufacturer offers some support on both. In the case of Apple you have support for the hardware, OS and the DAW if you use Logic Studio.

You're talking about the kind of support people getting when purchasing brand name computers like IBM, Dell, Apple, Compaq, HP, etc... I have no need in this kind of support because i've been using computers for long enough to learn using them properly. So in my case, the disadvantages of using a brand name computer are much greater than the advantages, also because i prefer a fully customized pro-level system that's built by the highest standards using the latest technologies, instead of the average-level overpriced products the companies mentioned above have to offer. Speaking of prices, even if brand name computers were cheaper than custom made ones, i'd still prefer custom made without thinking twice. Especially when it goes for a music production studio where customization is essential in order to get the most out of your setup.

Originally Posted by LivePsy

OK, you are right. You can install OS X on a PC. But I question the value in doing it. I consider professional support of value, especially if you are making money out of your computer. I'm also wary of being sucked into the computer technology as an end in itself. I've met many IT people who are obsessed with the game, whereas I think the aim of IT is just to get things to work.

The question is how do you value Apple support, how much are you ready to pay for it, how much do you think it's worth, and how much would be enough to say: "no thanks. this is a blatant rip off, get out of my face with this shit". I can't remember when was the last time i needed such support, before OSX became available for PC i used Macs for many years and never had the need for the support they offer. Basically this support is aimed at n00bs who aren't able to work out simple technical problems when they occur. But imho, people who don't know using computers shouldn't be using one, simple. This applies to both PC and Mac users.

[LivePsy]

Either my post resonated with you, or it didn't.

I am a pragmatic kind of person who wants a computer to do something useful. XLR8R, you really are too centered on the computer technology, whereas I think the focus should be on the DAW software and the music itself rather than the hardware and OS underneath it. I could be obsessed with the technology but I choose not to be. Like you, I understand a great deal about the technologies. I just don't think its a worthwhile end in itself.

Theres's no point scoring to be gained here.

Cheers,
B