The musicians are almost extinct

[IamEvil]

Originally Posted by meisenhower

Let's just say on this subject, some of us simply disagree about what constitutes a "musician", but do it without being disagreeable.

No , lets not "just say"

This is just a way for you to "rosey up" what is basically YOUR incorrect understanding of the term musician.

Your views on what a musician is are irrelevent. I've already showed you what our language defines as a musician. This isn't something that you can change to suit.

So I guess then I will be "disagreeable". Sorry

To those of us who have taken the "long" view about learning our craft, we are naturally going to be sensitive about broad comments like "practicing scales for 8 hours a day is a waste of time, when one could be learning how to make commercially successful music". It's like being dismissive of Thelonious Monk, because he didn't sell one platinum album in his lifetime.

That may have applied when taken from the actual context that was intended. Why didn't you quote the complete part I stated.. oh yes , it wouldn't suit your silly argument. Hey , let me do it for you..

There is no point trying to learn to play a certain style when it isn't going to bring you closer to the goal you desire. Why waste 8 hours a day practicing keyboard skills when it could be used in learning how to produce professional sounding sellable music ?

There you go ,

Now please explain how practicing scales for 8 hours a day will help in the composition of music that doesn't require you to play live ?

If you're a knob twiddler, loop slicer or beat maker, and you're making music and it makes you happy. All the better.

not really , the world is full of smug arrogant people who love to visit internet forums to try and pull other people down.

The music world is certainly big enough for all of us.

Obviously not by the first post in this thread.

peace

[meisenhower]

Evil, you are certainly living up to your name.

I don't wish to mince words with a wanker with an inferiority complex about their lack of skills, and I'm certainly not trying to "rosey up" to anyone (least of all you).

Be disagreeable, as that is one area that you seem to have "talent". Talent making music? Haven't heard any thing that would suggest that, sad to say.

Since when does practicing 8 hours a day limited to someone playing in a particular "style?" Do you think that long practice is the bastion of only classical and jazz musicians?

Because I have practiced 8 hours a day (certainly when preparing to play a classical concert), but also to develop the requisite technical ability on my instrument to not limit what I can play. Practicing 8 hours a day will eventually give you mastery over your instrument of choice. It also instills discipline into a person and teaches and rewards patience.

There is something to be said for mastering something in one's life (and Evil has mastered making "multiple quote" responses in his replies. I guess all that technical machine experience is paying off.

It's no different than years of advanced study at a university, or formal training in the other arts (painting, sculpture). Sure, anyone with a canvas, brush and paint can create something (and in some rare instances, a truly gifted individual comes along and breaks all the conventions), but having studied the formal techniques, knowing about color and composition and years of practice and study is the path to a career.

I don't understand why anyone would think that dedication, fortitude and the desire to be as proficent as possible, through whatever measures necessary can be a waste of time, and not see the value proposition.

I'm certainly not trying to put anyone down, with the exception of maybe . . . oh never mind.

Lastly, I wasn't the first post on this thread, as my first comment happened around page 3 or 4. There are people in front of me that don't share your opinion, Evil! What a shock.

[Khazul]

Originally Posted by IamEvil

Noo!

You can't play live 16th notes on 210bpm speedcore/gabber... you arent a musician , you should only use casio !

I count an arpegiator as a live performance tool for doing that of shit

[IamEvil]

Originally Posted by meisenhower

Evil, you are certainly living up to your name.

My name is Marc , IamEvil was something off the TV as I was joining this and another forum one night. You didn't think my real name was Evil did you? - I do ask this semi seriously due to your previous post history

I don't wish to mince words with a wanker with an inferiority complex about their lack of skills, and I'm certainly not trying to "rosey up" to anyone (least of all you).

you have zero argument so now you resort to name calling, a real internet big man.

Be disagreeable, as that is one area that you seem to have "talent". Talent making music? Haven't heard any thing that would suggest that, sad to say.

And now resorting to the predictable personal attacks...

For your information; the tracks you're refering to linked on my sig. are tracks written from Day 1 of owning my first synth/sequencer (which explains my overcompression and lack of true mixing skills). They are my learning process, each time I bought a new synth I would write a quick song using it to see what type of sounds I could get from it.
For reference , Antigravity was all CS2X , Eternal (All Deepbass09), Let Go (All JD800), Dark Matter (All Supernova 2) etc etc..

So insult away , I wrote those songs usually within a few days of a new synth and still probably done in the same time frame that you were still hitting wrong notes playing Three Blind Mice.

Since when does practicing 8 hours a day limited to someone playing in a particular "style?" Do you think that long practice is the bastion of only classical and jazz musicians?

you have skipped my question and replied with a question.. Please answer my question about why a person needs to practice scales when they do not play live.

To answer your question, No , I don't think long practice sessions are for classical and jazz players. I think they should be for people who PLAY LIVE MUSIC.

Because I have practiced 8 hours a day (certainly when preparing to play a classical concert), but also to develop the requisite technical ability on my instrument to not limit what I can play. Practicing 8 hours a day will eventually give you mastery over your instrument of choice. It also instills discipline into a person and teaches and rewards patience.

to be quite blunt here.. Please quit trying to suck your own dick, I'm not interested how many hours you have put in to playing your damn scales. I don't really care that you can play with both hands in time and up and down your keyboard. You and your ego are not the topic of the thread.

There is something to be said for mastering something in one's life (and Evil has mastered making "multiple quote" responses in his replies. I guess all that technical machine experience is paying off.

grow up

It's no different than years of advanced study at a university, or formal training in the other arts (painting, sculpture). Sure, anyone with a canvas, brush and paint can create something (and in some rare instances, a truly gifted individual comes along and breaks all the conventions), but having studied the formal techniques, knowing about color and composition and years of practice and study is the path to a career.

yeah , you're a real hero aren't you.

I don't understand why anyone would think that dedication, fortitude and the desire to be as proficent as possible, through whatever measures necessary can be a waste of time, and not see the value proposition.

I'm quite sure you're just baiting now and throwing words out which you know are taken out of context.

I guess some of us are happy to repetatively parot out other peoples tunes on a piano to learn how to play, while others want to invest that time into learning sound programming , sequencer programming , drum programming , effects unit programming , compressing , EQing and probably a bit of mastering.

I'm certainly not trying to put anyone down, with the exception of maybe . . . oh never mind.

Lastly, I wasn't the first post on this thread, as my first comment happened around page 3 or 4. There are people in front of me that don't share your opinion, Evil! What a shock.

Your inflated ego assumes I was on about you when I wasn't, how sweet.



I'm now going to ask you to put your money where your mouth is and challenge you.

Currently I'm waiting the arrival of a new audio PC so don't have access to my sequencer or music software at the moment , so you will have to wait a week or so....

I've listened to your myspace errr stuff so I know where you're comming from musically(?), I'll write a track similar to what you have on your myspace and you have to write a track similar to my Oblivion track.

To prove you have done it , you have to not only post an audio MP3 of the completed track but also a sequencer .CPR track to show you haven't just nicked it.

up for it ?

[teethofgold]

I love it!

does a mod wheel count as an instrument? how about a kaoss pad?

[Monobeat]

I applaude Meisenhower and his defense of his keyboard skills. I am almost certain he is trying to brighten our days, all over the world, in studios stretching from New Zealand to Iceland to Russia... in all walks of life, with his glorious satire... If I am wrong... I'll be laughing even harder. I have shared this thread with everyone I work with and we have all shared a hearty belly laugh over a nice cup of my favorite coffee...

I think someone needs to meditate, then perhaps go for a walk. Maybe even try doing a handstand...

The escalating tension brings me very far from the musical connection I usually feel with all of you guys/girls (suzie)....

[LivePsy]

Originally Posted by teethofgold

still... this discussion of "people can't play keyboards" is seriously flawed in that some of the best electronic music (in my opinion) is not even physically possible to play.

This is true, and it is also true that the sound is far more important than the notes. We're treating music like its 600 years ago and musical scales somehow are relevant. Learning music LIMITs you incredibly, but learning to listen and eventually create something you hear inside is the real skill.

I've learnt piano passing all the grades in NZ and frankly had to unlearn a lot of crap to start appreciating and then making electronic music. Music is NOT about notes, its about sounds and silence. When we were able to create any sound imaginable, we left traditional music behind. Some of us just don't realise it yet...

B

[synthfiend]

my 2 cents;

even though a lot of electronic music is dependant on the sounds and their movement (rather than formal music composition), I think there is still quite a lot of underlying musicality to electronic stuff. Even if the composer does not realise it. Maybe a lot of electronic musicians (who are not formally trained in music) create tunes by ear...

[Ceri JC]

As a newcomer to this forum, would I be correct in assuming the debate about needing to play an instrument to be a musician is "one of those topics", which, like analogue versus digital or pretty much any "x sounds better than y" discussion, everyone has an opinion on and which always ends in tears?

[IamEvil]

Originally Posted by Ceri JC

As a newcomer to this forum, would I be correct in assuming the debate about needing to play an instrument to be a musician is "one of those topics", which, like analogue versus digital or pretty much any "x sounds better than y" discussion, everyone has an opinion on and which always ends in tears?

Wouldn't be much point going on the interweb if everyone hi-5'd each other and agreed though would it ?