TI Snow Automation/Note Information Latency?

[V-Jolt]

I am really hoping to buy a Virus TI Snow soon. I have an Alesis Micron and I want to replace it with a hardware synth that could actually handle information from my DAW (Ableton Suite 9). For example, smooth automation of several parameters at once as well as note information and physical knob tweaks all ideally at the same time. If I try to automate the levels of OSC 1, 2, and 3 on my Alesis Micron (via the Retroware AU), the latency at any buffer size is ridiculously slow. It takes several seconds after you hit stop to actually stop playing the notes and automating the parameters. I am running a Macbook (an old white one) with Lion 10.7.2, 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, and 4GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM. It seems to handle multitasking with my other synths, Ableton 9, plug-ins, firewire connection to my mixer, and midi controllers just fine but the Alesis Micron, when plugged in alone can't seem to handle notes along with 2 or more parameters at all without being really slow. Is it my computer or the synth?

I must know before buying a Virus TI Snow, if it's up to the task, with little to no latency.

[MBTC]

Have you considered an Ultranova or Mininova? They don't cost much (I paid $600 US for the Ultra new) and automation works as you would expect through USB, at least in Cubase.

I'm having an issue unrelated to automation, but it's probably not something most people care about (it has more to do with the way the mixer in Cubase works I think). I'm currently a little pissed at Novation customer support for ignoring a ticket I put into them, but its not enough to make me dissuade someone from buying one. I think these synths are an amazing value if you don't need multi-timbrality. The VST editor is excellent, the touch controls are very useful, the overall sound is great. Not many third party soundsets available, that's one big advantage the Virus has.


UPDATE: after I sent Novation a follow-up nag mail, they did respond to my request and resolve the issue I was having. It had more to do with a setting in the software for my audio interface (which interestingly is also made by them) than it did the UltraNova.

[V-Jolt]

I really want the Snow because it's the most affordable one and it's got that Virus sound. I love those Virus style pads. It would be great to have the Virus sound with parameter automation that truly was smooth and real time too.

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by V-Jolt

I really want the Snow because it's the most affordable one and it's got that Virus sound. I love those Virus style pads. It would be great to have the Virus sound with parameter automation that truly was smooth and real time too.

I've contemplated a Snow too, I'm just not sure I'd be happy with polyphony at the given price point, given my brief experience with a Ti2 desktop. I'd pay $1200 USD for a new Ti2 tomorrow without thinking about it, but for a Snow, or twice that for a Ti2, it's a tough ongoing point of contemplation with me. Newer soft synths have just gotten so good, up against the Virus or anything else, and they're just so easy to work with its hard to justify the hassle and expense (for me anyway).

[V-Jolt]

Originally Posted by MBTC

I've contemplated a Snow too, I'm just not sure I'd be happy with polyphony at the given price point, given my brief experience with a Ti2 desktop. I'd pay $1200 USD for a new Ti2 tomorrow without thinking about it, but for a Snow, or twice that for a Ti2, it's a tough ongoing point of contemplation with me. Newer soft synths have just gotten so good, up against the Virus or anything else, and they're just so easy to work with its hard to justify the hassle and expense (for me anyway).

10 to 50 voices is pretty decent, maybe not that price but what would you say about the snow's latency with live performance? As long as it automates plenty of parameters, plays midi notes/chords and it's a Virus the price doesn't bother me. I would practically gett it for the pads, the "TI", and that authentic Virus sound.

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by V-Jolt

10 to 50 voices is pretty decent, maybe not that price but what would you say about the snow's latency with live performance? As long as it automates plenty of parameters, plays midi notes/chords and it's a Virus the price doesn't bother me. I would practically gett it for the pads, the "TI", and that authentic Virus sound.

If you can, play around with one so you can get a feel for what 10-50 voices really means in practical sound design. 3 osc with unison 3 is 9 voices while holding one key down, and that's before the DSP-gobbling features like FX which will reduce numbers quickly. Granted, that may depend on what kind of music you want to make, and you did mention pads which are polyphony heavy.

I had bad luck with latency at the time and sent my desktop back, but since then I have reason to believe there may have been other issues affecting my USB performance. I have the Ultranova connected to a dedicated USB 3 card in a dedicated music PC now so I'm not comparing that aspect fairly with the Virus a few years back. I think you'd have to get consensus from others on that one, it may depend on platform and DAW, I just know that a while back I noticed Cubase users on Windows were having the best luck but I think the recent scuttlebutt is that things have improved on all platforms.

[namnibor]

Originally Posted by V-Jolt

I am really hoping to buy a Virus TI Snow soon. I have an Alesis Micron and I want to replace it with a hardware synth that could actually handle information from my DAW (Ableton Suite 9). For example, smooth automation of several parameters at once as well as note information and physical knob tweaks all ideally at the same time. If I try to automate the levels of OSC 1, 2, and 3 on my Alesis Micron (via the Retroware AU), the latency at any buffer size is ridiculously slow. It takes several seconds after you hit stop to actually stop playing the notes and automating the parameters. I am running a Macbook (an old white one) with Lion 10.7.2, 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, and 4GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM. It seems to handle multitasking with my other synths, Ableton 9, plug-ins, firewire connection to my mixer, and midi controllers just fine but the Alesis Micron, when plugged in alone can't seem to handle notes along with 2 or more parameters at all without being really slow. Is it my computer or the synth?

I must know before buying a Virus TI Snow, if it's up to the task, with little to no latency.

I thought I'd pipe-in because I have the Alesis Ion, which the Micron's synth engine is identical, but with a craptastic user interface...I only keep the Ion because with all the knobs coupled with a really greatly deep synth engine with amazing amount of and types of filters.
However, Alesis decided to use NPRN rather than MIDI because they needed the vast number of parameter 'steps' that if MIDI were used there would have been unavoidable stepping in osc's, lfo's, et al.....because of this, particularly even moreso with the little Micron and Miniak (another repackaged Ion Engine, still bad interface as Micron), there's really YET to be editing software that can decipher all those huge NPRN values, let alone dependable *automation* in a DAW.
It's not you or your DAW, it's most certainly the Micron! The Ion is a joy to program and not only faithfully emulates classic analog sounds with it's great VA filters and huge modulation matrix, esp. for some really out there sounds and people tend to kind of play real time when recording or like what I am doing, ambient, droney-hypnotize-cats type experimental stuff.
DSI at least uses SYSEX for those extreme lfo and other parameters way beyond midi's numerical capacity with good handful of midi controllable parameters in the mix.
Your Micron's small form factor, powerful matrix, has a handy redeemable reason to hold onto it--the external inputs and all those crazy filters, not to mention the 40 band vocoder that does not cost any polyphony, and it does various synthy bass sounds quite well!
NPRN and crazy hex sequential parameter ID's...oh my!
The none-Ti Virus synths make wonderful pads as well if you do not wish to wrestle with Virus Control. Seems to be a mixed-bag how that works.
Rant over, (keep your Micron or get an Ion for tons of fun)

[V-Jolt]

Originally Posted by namnibor

I thought I'd pipe-in because I have the Alesis Ion, which the Micron's synth engine is identical, but with a craptastic user interface...I only keep the Ion because with all the knobs coupled with a really greatly deep synth engine with amazing amount of and types of filters.
However, Alesis decided to use NPRN rather than MIDI because they needed the vast number of parameter 'steps' that if MIDI were used there would have been unavoidable stepping in osc's, lfo's, et al.....because of this, particularly even moreso with the little Micron and Miniak (another repackaged Ion Engine, still bad interface as Micron), there's really YET to be editing software that can decipher all those huge NPRN values, let alone dependable *automation* in a DAW.
It's not you or your DAW, it's most certainly the Micron! The Ion is a joy to program and not only faithfully emulates classic analog sounds with it's great VA filters and huge modulation matrix, esp. for some really out there sounds and people tend to kind of play real time when recording or like what I am doing, ambient, droney- hypnotize-cats type experimental stuff.
DSI at least uses SYSEX for those extreme lfo and other parameters way beyond midi's numerical capacity with good handful of midi controllable parameters in the mix.
Your Micron's small form factor, powerful matrix, has a handy redeemable reason to hold onto it--the external inputs and all those crazy filters, not to mention the 40 band vocoder that does not cost any polyphony, and it does various synthy bass sounds quite well!
NPRN and crazy hex sequential parameter ID's...oh my!
The none-Ti Virus synths make wonderful pads as well if you do not wish to wrestle with Virus Control. Seems to be a mixed-bag how that works.
Rant over, (keep your Micron or get an Ion for tons of fun)

Oh I'm keeping my Micron I love it still but I just wanted some decent intigration. I'll just use it without my computer or without making it jump through all sorts of hoops. With everything said in this thread, i still would really like a Virus Ti Snow. I'd go polar but I don't feel like saving up that much money. I'm digging the small portable set up I'm building. The Snow would fit in great with my minitaur, minibrute, and micron

[AndrewM]

I think you'll be okay and it'll function how you'd like it to. I used to use my Snow on a very old PC laptop, recording lots of automation with no issues.

You can get a lot of juice out of a Snow if you program it well. I wouldn't worry to much about voices unless you are looking to perform classical pieces with a long release times.

[V-Jolt]

Man if these tax refunds weren't taking for freaking ever... I'd have a Snow no problem