Officially rejoining the group...

[MBTC]

After many years of being virus-free, I have recently been diagnosed with a case of Virus Snow -- this time it may be permanent so I will need support of the group

I told myself if I could ever find a great deal on a used Virus C or TI locally, where I could get my paws on it first, I would buy it. The theory is that by purchasing a used unit, if I ever get frustrated like I did with my original TI2 desktop purchase, I could sell it on the used market for roughly what I paid for it, therefore the stress factor would be reduced.

So it happened, I found a TI Snow for sale on Craigslist in the price range I was waiting for, and took a chance on it. I still have much to learn, but as far as I can tell it is in the mint condition the prior owner claimed it to be, and everything works.

For those who followed my rants of my experience with my previous TI2 about five years or so ago, I should clarify a few things:

1. My experience then was with a different OS version (don't recall which), and a different DAW (I was using FLS primarily and now use Cubase 8 ). I do not believe FLS was officially supported by Access then.
2. I was using a different PC. My current music PC has a dedicated USB 2.0 card that I put in exclusively for USB audio like the Virus, the rig I tested the Ti2 on did not.
3. When I purchased the TI2 new, I was under a lot of pressure to evaluate it quickly and made a decision on whether to keep or return it. By buying a used unit, I have removed that pressure such that I can take the time to really get to know the instrument and invest proper time to overcome technical hurdles.
4. Obtaining a used Snow for about 1/3 the price I paid for the TI2 desktop certainly puts a new perspective on matters. I can be much more forgiving of imperfections when the price is right.

So, how are my first impressions? Quite good so far. Really love the filters and FX. One of my beefs with the TI2 was the polyphony of a complex (heavy unison, FX, long release times, etc) single part patch (at the price point). One thing I noticed straight away is that the Snow subjectively feels like it gives me just as much polyphony as the TI2 with a single patch. Notice I said subjectively, because it's been years since I had my hands on a TI2 so I cannot do a fair comparison, but it made me think that perhaps the TI2 does not split a single part patch across both DSPs, but rather uses the second DSP to take over some of the FX processing, or perhaps to balance each parts in a multi-timbral setup. In other words, given a single part that will only give up 4-5 notes, I'm not sure you'll necessarily get double those notes or more on a TI2 even though technically it has twice the processing power. What you will definitely get on a TI2 is more simultaneous parts, perhaps even more effects per parts. Probably only the developers at Access know for sure, this is only as I said a subjective observation based on memory.

What about the latency over USB? Well to me it feels improved in Cubase and on OS 5.0.8, and better than what I was experiencing many years back with FLS, but there could be many reasons for that. I'm one of those who is very aware of input latency and will always feel the difference between 5ms and 10ms between key hit and note sound on a percussive patch. Some will say latency is a fact of life with streaming audio, but I definitely feel lag with the Virus that I don't feel with my other hardware synths. I am using it strictly with USB audio have not yet tried some alternative configurations. To be honest, at the price I paid for it, even if I can never improve the latency, it is still going to be a keeper for me. Even if I used it for things less timing sensitive like pads, its still a great sounding synth.

Right now I'm mostly just getting familiar with it. I rely on VC a lot, and usually the only time I touch the hardware is when I'm tweaking cutoff/res or one of the three value knobs (or to put it in and out of standby). One of the things I immediately love about it is that it has that sound profile that you can hear on "Playing the Angel" (2005 LP by Depeche Mode). They used the Virus extensively on every track, and if you like that slightly distorted-yet-clean sullen growling characteristic they created on that CD, it comes through a lot via the Snow fairly naturally. That's not to say it's limited to that sound at all -- it fact seems to have a huge range of possibilities, but if you have an affinity for that sound the Virus does it better than any other synth I've heard. In fact, I was pleased to see some of the actual patches from the 2005-2006 Depeche mode tour available for download from the Access website.

Fun times ahead!

[Berni]

be sure to download the Depeche Mode Patches, should still be on access's site for free download

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by Berni

be sure to download the Depeche Mode Patches, should still be on access's site for free download

Yeah I was surprised to see them there, especially one that seems to be for "Just Can't Get Enough" which would be a really odd track to play live alongside anything they did after about 1985, IMO. Such an upbeat cheeseball song from the early Vince Clark days.

And, oddly enough the patch doesn't sound anything like the lead in the original official track, the whole filter envelope is different. It sounds only like a distance attempt to recreate the original lead.

Although it's possible it is the lead they used in 2006 like in Milan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB08O2J-vrI

... or then again maybe there's something wrong with my Snow that I haven't discovered yet!

[TweakHead]

Ok, so now you need to pay the monthly fees like the rest of us!!!

Enjoy your new machine, seems like you grabbed a nice deal for it! The Snow by itself seems like the best bang for buck out of them all.

Think I may have to look for a similar deal myself, uh?

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by TweakHead

Ok, so now you need to pay the monthly fees like the rest of us!!!

Enjoy your new machine, seems like you grabbed a nice deal for it! The Snow by itself seems like the best bang for buck out of them all.

Think I may have to look for a similar deal myself, uh?

It's definitely the right unit for my immediate needs, and as you said probably the best bang for the buck as long as you don't need all the extra knobs of the other units (in my case I don't since I do most programming via the plugin, 5 knobs are enough for real-time tweaks).

I figured it can't hurt to re-enter the waters small so to speak. Part of this is an experiment to see how well TI works under Cubase and with my current rig. One thing I haven't tried yet (simply due to lack of time) is to have both the Virus and the Ultranova plugged into the same USB card. That of course is against Access's recommendation, but it will be nice of it works. I've never tried the Ultranova on one of the standard motherboard ports.

If I ultimately decide I just need more DSP power, I guess I could always get a TI2 again.

Does anyone know if it's possible to have two TIs connected to same DAW (like a snow + a desktop) with two instances of Virus Control? I'm guessing not possible due to plugin limitations.

[Timo]

Congrats! Really great to hear you're finding it smoother than your last experience too, and that you can concentrate more on the audio side of things. Which is, ultimately, the way it should be.

All your reasons for choosing a Snow were identical to my own, it made sound economic sense (see what I did there?). Now if we can get Tweak to join, and a few others, the Snow Effect™ could snowball.

[syncerely]

I have a Virus T2 and an Ultranova and I think they really complement each other. There are things you can do on each that you can't do on the other. They have characteristic sounds that don't step on each other.
On latency...
A sort of rule of thumb is the speed of sound is about 1100 feet per second.
With absolutely no latency if you are about 5 feet from the speaker you have about 5ms latency.
If you are 20 feet from the speaker you have about 20ms latency.

[TweakHead]

Yeah, maybe that effect does indeed exist 'cause I've been thinking about it more and more! The features I'm missing seem to become a bigger deal as time goes by, also curiosity starts to take over... Just have to get a nice deal for it, and haven't really been looking (just yet) :infekted:

still enjoying the C though, combined with the rest of my humble setup, I can reach a lot of sonic territory. but the Virus is still a winner in my book, and I really dig it's sound, the addition of an editor (I have the solar 3d one and been demoing the mistery island's one on the laptop, every now and then, thinking of getting it as well, as I'd need two licenses for each computer anyways) made me comfortable enough to make more use of the multi capabilities. I confess that although I'm surely geek enough to dive deep into synthesis, even to the point of loosing track of what I was doing in a given track, I can be real lazy if I need much menu diving before I can get my hands on the sound (so to speak), 'cause it just destroys the flow. with the editor, which I imagine is an approximation (at least) to the Ti experience, another thing that's also much more handy is automation. I can draw lines and curves and it all responds nice and smoothly - always with the before mentioned latency of course. Found that Ableton, besides the driver error compensation command, has a tutorial project inside (you get there with the help menu btw), that allows you to route a simple signal in a loop, so as to calculate precisely the latency you get, with a lot of decimal cases, so it's really down to the sample point precise!! After doing this, when using Ableton, I can record knowing that the start position of my recording will exactly match the midi notes - that's called sample accuracy in my book! So it's really great! But I'm pretty sure the other stuff that's been added would open many new doors and sonic avenues and it's surely nice to have as much as possible in the same, familiar and welcoming place, so yeah, call it snow effect TM if you will HA!!!

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by Timo

Congrats! Really great to hear you're finding it smoother than your last experience too, and that you can concentrate more on the audio side of things. Which is, ultimately, the way it should be.

All your reasons for choosing a Snow were identical to my own, it made sound economic sense (see what I did there?). Now if we can get Tweak to join, and a few others, the Snow Effect™ could snowball.

It's indeed a good value, kind of wish I had grabbed a Snow sooner really. I suppose I could have found one reasonably enough on ebay, but when it comes to expensive electronics I'm always worried about taking over someone else's problems or buying from a sketchy seller. At least if I drive to the owner's residence I get to test drive a piece of gear first and get the peace of mind knowing where to find them if things go horribly wrong. Many years back I wanted to buy a keyboard but the guy wanted to meet me in some parking lot and sell it out of the back of his van... I had to pass on that one.

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by syncerely

I have a Virus T2 and an Ultranova and I think they really complement each other. There are things you can do on each that you can't do on the other. They have characteristic sounds that don't step on each other.
On latency...
A sort of rule of thumb is the speed of sound is about 1100 feet per second.
With absolutely no latency if you are about 5 feet from the speaker you have about 5ms latency.
If you are 20 feet from the speaker you have about 20ms latency.

We'll have to compare notes on Virus and Ultranova coexistence sometimes.

For me the latency issue is one of input latency - what's the delay between my keyboard input and the output sound (headphones, speakers, whatever). Once the audio is in the DAW, there's always delay compensation to fix things, but having that tight response for real-time play makes a big difference for me. I hope I can get to that point with the Snow (lots of things I haven't tried yet), but even if not, it makes a monster machine for pads or things that do not require perfect timing, and I can get lost in immersion just experimenting with some of the sounds that come out of it and sampling them.

Do you have your Virus and Ultranova both plugged in to USB at the same time? Also, are you using the audio card in either or a separate one?