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  #11  
Old 12.06.2004, 09:53 PM
ben crosland ben crosland is offline
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Timo,

I think you're missing the point about why a multitude of knobs is the preferred choice for many users. You see, it's not all about programmability - it's also about live tweakability. You can program an enormous range of fantastic sounds by only using the knobs on the Virus - the menus are only required to get to the more esoteric features. So, whilst I'm sure programming on the Korg is all very intuitive with it's lovely large display, it's just not the same as being able to grab any one of 32 knobs to tweak the sound directly. Also, remember that you are speaking from the experience of an Indigo 1 user - that's one of the big advantages of the C series, is that the redesigned interface means you need to go into the menus far less often than on the B series.

It's not like I'm saying that I wouldn't like a bigger display - and I'm sure Access would love their instruments to have Korg style displays. However, you have to understand that the instruments that Korg endow with the massive screens make up a much larger share of the musical instrument market than the VAs. Like I pointed out earlier - note how they *didn't* put a big display in the MS2000 series! (Remember - that is what the Virus is competing with; it is not competing with Tritons etc) If they had put a big screen in it, it would have put it into a price-range that would have been unrealistic for that kind of instrument. Likewise - Roland put a small display in the JP8000 series, and Yamaha put virtually no user interface to speak of on their AN1X did they? Korg also put the most pathetic knobs I've ever encountered on the MS2000, whereas Access at least use decent quality ones that might survive some over-enthuastic tweaking.
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  #12  
Old 12.06.2004, 11:11 PM
Hollowcell Hollowcell is offline
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Mmm Modular - Yeh nice, but I wouldn't spend the money on one. I'd never make music as I'd be making patches.

Umm, Big graphical touch screen - It would be nice as an add on feature (as long as it still has the same amount of knobs).

IMO Access shouldn't be wasting time on a new machine when they could

Make more filters
Make more filters
Make more filters
Make more filters

Actualy a few more distortion and FX algos wouldn't go a stray either.

For the C series of course.

How about a PM Ben? You can tell me.
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  #13  
Old 13.06.2004, 12:44 AM
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Hi Ben!

Didn't suggest for one mo that they should get rid of any of their knobs!

But, to see my point of view, you must realise that programming via knobs is not always the best way! Of course it's great for live tweaking, but to fully unleash the Virus' labyrinth of a sound engine when programming sounds in detail in the studio, a large graphical LCD can only significantly help matters, in the same way that a computer monitor screen allows you to do a whole plethora of things that the Virus just cannot do, but potentially could. Think Reaktor, Rhino, FM7, X-Phraze, Z3ta, Absynth, Malstr?m, and the like. - not the entire programs (that would be truly impossible, unless you have a Neko ), but the synthesis concepts enhanced greatly by (or even only made possible by) using graphics of some kinda or another.

Even things like the modulation matrix would be a breeze to use by picking source and destinations via a pull-down menu (which is how the Korg's LCDs work), rather than scrolling through every source and every destination one by one, as per what the currently 2-line LCD only permits.

What I was saying was, that even though the Trinity doesn't have any knobs, I can still program patches far, far faster - by a long shot - than programming the equivalent patch on the Indigo, with all 32 knobs, albeit with an Indigo v1 LCD and B-series interface. The Virus' knobs remaining in whole or part, in addition, would be a dream synth. Almost no need to use a desktop computer.

I'd also bet that Access have sold as many (or similar) Viri' that Korg have sold Tritons? But there's no real way to know this, though.
However, they are both roughly the same price, too. And the Triton includes a massive (understatement) sequencer, 48MB sample ROM, upto 96MB sampler, 60 oscillators, 100 effect types and very flexible multi-timbral effects routing (ie. you could have up to six reverbs and delays in one chain, if desired), RPPRs, onboard controllers such as the XY joystick, ribbon-controller (the Trinity's ribbon had depth-control, too), optional CD-RW... etc.
I find my Trinity's ribbon controller to be of a hugely greater use than simply a cut-off knob, when it's set, for example, to modulate cutoff frequency in the X-plane, and resonance in the Z-plane. You can tap the ribbon controller anywhere on its length to produce 'gated' staccato modulations if you wished. You can't do this with a knob, or 32 of 'em!

Regards the MS2000... it has 4 voice-poly, two oscillators, two EGs, two LFOs, one modulation effect, one delay effect. And that?s it. Oh, and a vocoder. Mmmm, not exactly on a par with a modern Virus beast! The JP8000 is a standard VA, and can?t do anything else due to its UI, whereas the Virus, to me, has more potential to break away and branch out from that VA mould? If only a larger screen would let it.

I think you can only appreciate what a large screen can do if you've actually tried it yourself. Have you ever used one of the Korg workstations? Or, more appropriately in its sound architecture to the VAs, the Roland's V-Synth, or similar?

[Click this]

Imagine a Virus with the V-Synth interface? Can you imagine that?! 8O That would seriously kick some preverbial synthesis butt!! That would be pure sex in a synth, IMHO. AND everyone would buy one, even if they had a Virus.

www.V-Synth.com

But, it hasn't the Virus sound engine inside it, unfortunately.

But Access could do one!

Timo
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  #14  
Old 13.06.2004, 01:00 AM
ben crosland ben crosland is offline
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Maybe the reason I don't mind the small display on the Virus, is that if I want instant access to all the internal parameters, I just fire up Sounddiver

As it happens, I use keyboards at work every day with large LCD screens, so I know they can be useful; but in actual fact I can achieve what I want in very little time on the Virus, for one simple reason: I know it like the back of my hand!

As to whether there are as many Viruses sold as Tritons, well I couldn't tell you for certain, as I don't have access to that kind of information, but I *seriously* doubt that Access have sold anywhere near that amount!!Not that the Virus hasn't sold well, but I think you might be surprised by the ridiculous numbers of instruments sold by the big Japanese manufacturers
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  #15  
Old 13.06.2004, 03:02 AM
saba saba is offline
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Oh! I know what I'd love to see from Access.

A wavetable synthesizer.

One to rule them all. Something in a similar vein to the WaveXT from Waldorf. That, with some new features that Access could think of, would make me weak at the knee's, and I'd go out and buy one the day it was announced
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  #16  
Old 13.06.2004, 05:24 AM
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yeah a wavetable couldnt be a good idea
the waldorf xt and microwaves are the only ones in the market.
maybe a wavetable with one analog filter and the other digital for hollows fillters
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  #17  
Old 13.06.2004, 09:01 AM
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I'm hoping for a modular. I really think some competition for the G2 from Access would be killer. Ooh, and another mod wheel would kick ass...

I wouldn't much care for the LCD, like Ben I just fire up Soundiver. I have a Triton and enjoy the screen on it, but I don't think it's really so necessary just for a VA.

Features I would like to see: user arp patterns, user waveform loading....
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  #18  
Old 13.06.2004, 12:53 PM
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Saba, a wavetable synth would be cool. But I feel they could integrate this type of synthesis, and others, into their next Virus, in addition.

Any future Virus' synth releases will need to do more than just the relatively bog-standard synthesis that it currently does. Integrating wavetable synthesis, as well as other exotic synthesis types such as waveshaping, physical-modelling, neural, vector, FM, granular, sample-resynthesis, 8-bit/retro etc., into future Virus follow-ups would be amazing. This way they can continue to enhance their line of Virus' exponentially with each release. Why restrict the Virus to just one synthesis type?

Regards SoundDiver, I don't think it should be up to sounddiver to do all your programming. The fact that you're using, or relying on SoundDiver means that the inadequacies of the Virus' current user interface are forcing you to do so. That's bad, IMHO. Not everyone has a computer, or wants to use a computer, or wants to lug around a computer and monitor (or laptop and midi-interface) around with them.
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  #19  
Old 13.06.2004, 03:50 PM
ben crosland ben crosland is offline
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I don't think it would be sensible for Access to shoehorn all those different types of synthesis into the Virus. If they did, it would be in danger of becoming something other than a Virus, and so far they have been very successful at maintaining a strong foothold in the market by just making the Virus better and better and making sure that it retains a competitive edge in certain areas. One of the major strengths of the Virus range is that they all retain a certain character, which has become part of the musical landscape.

It's not like I don't understand where you're coming from, Timo - believe me, you'd be hard-pushed to find someone more excited about a brand new 'ubersynth' from Access than I would be! But at the same time, it's easy to forget that your own personal feelings about the Virus are not necessarily indicative of others'. There are still loads of musicians who are yet to encounter a Virus - I think their potential marketplace has far from dried up. For instance, I was amazed at the number of people at NAMM who had no idea what a Virus was - far different from Frankfurt the year before, where nearly every visitor was already a Virus owner!

As for new features, I'm with Hollowcell, personally - I'd love to see more filters and distortion types; these would enhance the existing architecture, without fundamentally changing what the Virus is. The new Analog 1-4P filters with their *gorgeous* embedded saturation have really whetted my appetite!
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  #20  
Old 14.06.2004, 12:05 AM
Hollowcell Hollowcell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben crosland
As for new features, I'm with Hollowcell, personally - I'd love to see more filters and distortion types; these would enhance the existing architecture, without fundamentally changing what the Virus is. The new Analog 1-4P filters with their *gorgeous* embedded saturation have really whetted my appetite!
Yep, that's the whole reason I've been thinking about new filters myself. I was really surprised that filters came with a new OS and now that I know it can be done so well, I just want more!

I honestly think that incorporating some new filters (maybe not emulating a vintage synth this time) and adding more distortion algos with a new OS for the C series could push the sales of the C even more. I'm sure the moog filter helped from what I had heard on other forums, imagine what a new "original" self osc filter may do. I'm not just saying this because I want some more filters for my VC - well...maybe just a little, but I really do think so.
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