does the TI sound more dynamic and lush when in single mode, non usb?

[wavesinspace]

for instance, listening to RAM-A 116 WarmWavesBC I clearly hear a difference...

[7G]

I have to agree...
Analog outs are much more warmer
USB outs scratching my ears...

[kcinsu]

well, correct me if I am wrong, but the usb audio is max 44.1lKhz 16 bit, where as the analog outs are 192KHz 24-bit.

And S/PDIF is 44.1Khz 16, sometimes 24 bit... right?

I

[7G]

Originally Posted by kcinsu

well, correct me if I am wrong, but the usb audio is max 44.1lKhz 16 bit, where as the analog outs are 192KHz 24-bit.

And S/PDIF is 44.1Khz 16, sometimes 24 bit... right?

I

Exactly...
To be 100% correct S/PDIF can reach up to 24bit/48KHz but it's all about that analog circuitry that gives this warmth.I can hear it especially in the higher spectrum where the USB outs sound more harsh...

[synthfiend]

When you use the TI as your sound card you are using the USB outs, however the audio is coming out the TIs own analogue outs. Does this mean the signal from the analogue outs will be only 16 bit instead of 24 bit.

[luddy]

Is there any hard evidence about any of this stuff? For example, has Access ever commented on any of this? As far as I know, they haven't. Or maybe I've missed it ...

You can't conclude much from looking at the number of bits available via at the D/A converters. They obviously are not clocking those converters at 192KHz, so who knows what relevance that figure has to anyone. As for 24 bits, it strikes me as odd that they would send more bits into the D/A converters than they would over the digital connections.

SP/DIF is designed to handle up to 20 bits in an audio stream. I haven't seen any hard evidence about how many of these bits are actually in use -- changing value in a meaningful way -- in the case of the Virus.

I operate on the assumption that the Virus is a 16-bit synth from top to bottom, inside and out. I don't know that to be the case, but I tend to think that if there were really a bunch more bits of precision feeding the converters than are going over the USB or SP/DIF connection, then you would hear a much greater difference in sound for certain patches. There are lots of long tails and other opportunities to pick out 16bits vs 20 or 24bits among the Virus sounds and effects.

I've taken to tracking my Virus digitally -- through SP/DIF -- and then using other D/A converters if I want to bounce the tracks through outboard analog. That's mostly a workflow thing. I have some converters with very low noise floor that I like a little better than the converters on the Virus anyhow.

-Luddy

[marc]

Originally Posted by luddy

Is there any hard evidence about any of this stuff? For example, has Access ever commented on any of this? As far as I know, they haven't. Or maybe I've missed it ...

luddy, i've commented on it in the past, we had this type of thread before. i cannot find my own post anymore but i've posted an easy way for everybody to see if there is a difference. it's based on using the TI as a soundcard, making a sound from the virus going roundtrip into the computer and back to the virus' outs. that you can compare with the outs (and no roundtrip) by switching the part in question to direct mode (or analog out 1+2).

best, marc

[luddy]

Originally Posted by marc

luddy, i've commented on it in the past, we had this type of thread before. i cannot find my own post anymore but i've posted an easy way for everybody to see if there is a difference. it's based on using the TI as a soundcard, making a sound from the virus going roundtrip into the computer and back to the virus' outs. that you can compare with the outs (and no roundtrip) by switching the part in question to direct mode (or analog out 1+2).

best, marc

Nice! Wish I had time to do this test for myself, haha. Hopefully some kind soul who has tried this will report back. Or you could just tell us the punchline! This question actually has a correct and definitive answer from a technical point of view; I'm sure the engineers at Access know whether your round trip test can in principle yield a difference in sound or whether that's impossible on grounds of bit precision...

-Luddy

[DiScO]

I spent a long time playing a 'riff' earlier with the TI in standalone mode. When I was happy with what I was doing I booted up Logic and it all went to sh*t. The power of the same patch just diminished, not to mention of course the feel due to latency, even with the direct outs(as I have found that the majority of the time I have to load the plugin twice to get it tight). I also did a comparison the other day between identical patches on the Ti and the Virus Powercore beta, and the Powercore version wins hands down. And let me tell you, It aint just level. I remember doing the same test some time ago, the powercore version had more 'mid', you could say, although now with the new version I would say the powercore version has more 'depth'. I will have to think again how I work with this machine, as the analogue o/p's are definitely more desirable.

[wehurlbert]

Now let me get this straight - you're comparing the sound from the analog
outputs of the Virus with what you're getting from your soundcard by way
of the Virus USB and your DAW. And you expect them to be the same?

Like Marc said, at the minimum you'd have to use the Virus as your sound
card. And you'll need to be sure you're DAW is not touching the bits - Live
is the only one I've seen make official statements about when they do and
don't touch the bits.

And you'll need knowledge of routing/word-lengths/sample-rates through
the Virus. Marc's statement implies there is equivalence here, but he didn't
specifically say.

Of course, if you have a good sound card, and the differences are gross, you
might be able to make some statements about it. In this case, you shouldn't
be playing while listening. And the performance has to be the same.

You might do this by sequencing a MIDI performance and then recording
audio of that sequence via USB. Now you'd have both a MIDI sequence to
play the Virus (giving you output via Virus analog outs), and a USB audio
recording of the same performance which you'd listen to through your
sound card. Of course, aside from the DAW and the sound card, the word
length and sample rate are variables here. I think this is similar to what
Marc was talking about by using the Virus as your sound card.

Then you could tweak the levels to be equal (yet another variable) and sit
back and listen.

If you've got really good A/D converters, you could record the analog outs
of the Virus back into your DAW, and clinically compare that with the USB
recording i.e. invert phase of one and listen/look. You could also do this
via the S/PDIF out of the Virus i.e. USB vs S/PDIF.

-Wayne