Buying either Snow or Desktop TI - Noob Questions

[12341234]

Originally Posted by feedingear

The power supply for the TI is universal so you can gig it anywhere. Just get the appropriate converter for the cable from any hobby/electrical shop. I run a US TI in Australia and have never had a problem.

Yep, Access support confirmed this today. Cheers

[DarkstaR]

TI Snow polyphony is fine. Definitely >10 voices unless you deliberately try to max it out (Grain Complex where it's not needed, long reverb and release tails, 8x unison etc.). More like >20 with sensibly programmed patches and close to double that with really simple ones. If you have some good effects, you don't even need to use the Virus's built-in reverb (though it sounds excellent).

My only concern is that you won't be happy with the Virus either. You've already tried some of the very best virtual analog plug-ins available. If you can't get good Electro/Prog/Trance patches (which is basically what those plug-ins were made for) out of them, I don't see how you could succeed with the Virus. Lots of producers use the plug-ins you mentioned to produce very "professional" sounding records.

[12341234]

Originally Posted by DarkstaR

TI Snow polyphony is fine. Definitely >10 voices unless you deliberately try to max it out (Grain Complex where it's not needed, long reverb and release tails, 8x unison etc.). More like >20 with sensibly programmed patches and close to double that with really simple ones. If you have some good effects, you don't even need to use the Virus's built-in reverb (though it sounds excellent).

My only concern is that you won't be happy with the Virus either. You've already tried some of the very best virtual analog plug-ins available. If you can't get good Electro/Prog/Trance patches (which is basically what those plug-ins were made for) out of them, I don't see how you could succeed with the Virus. Lots of producers use the plug-ins you mentioned to produce very "professional" sounding records.

Thanks for your input. Yes, after all of the feedback and further research on it, I think the Snow is easily capable of obtaining the sound(s) I'm after. Better sound, more capable, quicker, less tedious workflow and less CPU load = over all winner.

This is/was also my concern. I should clarify a bit, the VST's I previously mentioned definitely are great for some things, I do use them a lot for certain staple sounds I've programmed, but IMO not so good for the specific sound/filter work I described. Yes, with stacking a few different plugs, a lot of programming, external processing (long chains of filter, EQ, compression, FX etc.) and careful automation, after hours of tweaking I can get close to this sound I'm trying to create, but never 100% happy. They all seem to have these artifacts that for me just aren't at that level I'm trying to reach, yet. Many could say I'm being way too picky, but frankly I'm at a point in my career where almost 100% isn't good enough anymore. If anything, I need to be more picky and more critical of the units/VST's I use and get the sounds from head to audio, spot on in the shortest amount of time possible to keep things flowing.

Yes, I have convinced myself that Virus is the solution.. have I tried it yet? No. As soon as I can find one at a fair price, I will find out first hand. Maybe I will be disappointed and go back to Nord, Moog, Roland, the endless patching, tweaking, bouncing and processing for these sounds. I know from experience that with A LOT of work, it is possible with these hardware synths - fantastic sounds, but at a premium cost in terms of cash and workflow, not to mention studio real estate and regular maintenance issues. Anyway, hopefully I'm right and the Virus will make life easier and better sounding for me. We'll see.

BTW if anybody in London or south UK has a Snow or Desktop model and is looking for a quick cash sale, I'm your guy, please do PM me!

[MBTC]

I don't want to discourage you here but I think you'll find DarkstaR is correct. The top VSTs of today are capable of sound as good as (or arguably better than due to flexibility) the Virus. That said, I have seen some folks comparing the sound of the Virus against VSTs in the wrong circumstances. For example, Zebra, Massive, Sylenth, etc will only take you so far (not very) with the presets. You need to invest time to get good with each synth and its particulars, or just buy some very high quality libraries. For example, compare out of box Massive sounds with these: http://www.adamszabo.com/massive-soundset. He is one of the best sound designers around, he also has a Virus but has said he uses softsynths more. Howard Scarr, the guy who perhaps has some of the most notoriety of any Virus sound designer now works for u-He (Zebra/Diva creators) fulltime, to give you an idea of where things have gone as VSTs and CPUs have gotten better.

When some folks say hardware sounds better than VST, I wonder if they are listening on equal ground. For example, headphones direct in the Virus, compared to headphones into speaker jack into back of PC or similar. For example I use both PC (FLStudio) and Mac (Logic Pro), and have many of same VSTs installed on both and transfer patches between them. With headphones direct into the Mac, everything sounds richer, more detailed, more expressive and far more inspiring on the Mac audio port (converters maybe?) but I think that's because of the different signal path for the audio out. Same synths, same patch, same headphones etc... as far as I know the only difference is the signal path, there is something in the signal path on the relatively cheap speakers I have on the PC at the moment.

In the end, it does not matter because by the time in ends up rendered to a track, there is absolutely no discernable difference in audio quality. The same will be true of any hardware synth -- there have been many tests done to see if anyone could consistently distinguish hardware from software synths in a track and to my knowledge it's never been done. Even Moog recently acknowledged there is no difference in sound, and that the real value of buying their hardware was for inspiration (which I agree with and is fully understandable).

Anyway I don't want to perpetuate any sort of hardware vs software debate because I like them both (and the inspiration factor of hardware, the value for live play, and the sheer sexiness of the blinking lights etc of the Virus has never been in doubt!).

I did also want to address that you said you wanted to get from point A to B faster. If you're looking to avoid a DAW, then the Virus might help in that regard, but if you are heavily DAW-reliant I think you will find the Virus actually forces you to re-think your workflow, slowing you down and leaving you fiddling with things you didn't have to in the past.

If I turn out to be wrong, please do update us here

Good luck.

[12341234]

Cheers for the input. I'm with you on most of that... and in fact since my first post here, due to the lack of secondhand Virus' up for sale (at reasonable pricing that is -there was a Virus C on ebay this week going for £1000!! crazy...) I have been forced to rethink everything. I decided that while I'm waiting for a Virus, I might as well go back to the drawing board, focus and really try to design the sounds I'm after using the gear I have at hand. As I said before, I have my drums, basses, leads pretty much nailed down, its those big lush plucky type pads that are driving me mad. Every VST I try seems to fall short in the filters department. Automating and really opening up those filters without all of the distorted aliasing artifacts is what I'm talking about. Diva, Strobe and Operator are the only plugs that I find can get in the ballpark of say a Nord or Moog. Yeah, I know, if that is the sound I want, then buy those synths and be done with it. Well, as previously stated, it comes down to money, workflow and space. Why spend £4000. (again) on two of these when a desktop Virus can do all of the above and a hell of a lot more for under £700.? That is my hope anyway. From most of the demo's I have heard online, the Virus seems to excel in this 'filter department, which is why I want one It seems that by using a Snow or Desktop model, using the ITB editor and minor hands on tweaking, it will be a very quick and smooth workflow. I dunno, maybe I have it all wrong. Like I said, with the VST's mentioned I can get close, with hours of work, loads of stacking and processing plugs, it's passable.. but I do notice the differences. Am I the only one? IMO for these types of sounds VST's just aren't quite there yet. And BTW in terms of sound design, I very rarely if ever use a stock preset. Usually they are just a starting point, inspiration to build upon or I go directly to an init patch and build my own sound from scratch. I do indeed have a few of Szabo's preset packs as well as his JP-8000 VST.. I find some to be quite good, while others complete rubbish, all down to personal tastes I know. And so my quest continues.

Anyway, thanks for all of the feedback, much appreciated and I'm totally open to more suggestions from you guys... think that a VST - a certain patch can do this sound I'm after? I'll give it a go! If you don't mind sharing info, I'm all ears!!

[12341234]

UPDATE... so after 6 months or so of being sniped I FINALLY won an eBay Virus auction!! YAY for me. Snagged a new condition Snow for half retail price. Fortunately my brother lives close to the seller and was able to go hands on test it before paying cash. On its way to me now... in the meantime, can anyone suggest some fantastic tutorials and patch libraries for it? Just to give me a head start really.

I'm sure I'll have questions and comments to share after I get the hang of it... will post up laters

[boreg]

Originally Posted by 12341234

On its way to me now... in the meantime, can anyone suggest some fantastic tutorials and patch libraries for it? Just to give me a head start really.

Congratulations!
Maybe it's obvious, but

• Download all free patches from the Access Virus official site; go over them study the ones you find interesting (most patches by Richard Devine are downright crazy btw );
• Watch all "Virus bootcamp" videos (on the same site or on Vimeo), they are short and to the point;
• Study "Programming Analogue Synthesizers" by Howard Scarr (should come with your Snow, also available for free download from the Access Site). Lots of good stuff there - general info and Virus-specific;
• There are some "making XX sound on Virus" videos on YouTube (just do a search) - pretty basic, but somewhat useful; and also Virus masterclass from SOS.

hope this helps ))

EDIT: sorry, didn't notice the keywords "meantime" and "head start" ))
So, ignore the first point - everything else you can do while waiting for your Snow to arrive.

[12341234]

Originally Posted by boreg

Congratulations!
Maybe it's obvious, but

• Download all free patches from the Access Virus official site; go over them study the ones you find interesting (most patches by Richard Devine are downright crazy btw );
• Watch all "Virus bootcamp" videos (on the same site or on Vimeo), they are short and to the point;
• Study "Programming Analogue Synthesizers" by Howard Scarr (should come with your Snow, also available for free download from the Access Site). Lots of good stuff there - general info and Virus-specific;
• There are some "making XX sound on Virus" videos on YouTube (just do a search) - pretty basic, but somewhat useful; and also Virus masterclass from SOS.

hope this helps ))

EDIT: sorry, didn't notice the keywords "meantime" and "head start" ))
So, ignore the first point - everything else you can do while waiting for your Snow to arrive.

Nice one! Will check out all of the above. Yeah, the Snow should arrive this weekend, so this will keep me busy the next couple of days. I've done a few searches and found loads of patch libraries... just gotta figure out which ones would be worth purchasing..

Cheers