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General discussion about Access Virus Discussion about Virus A, B, C and TI.

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  #1  
Old 28.08.2010, 11:29 PM
Barnelby Barnelby is offline
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Default (Not) another virus vs. VST thread

Hey guys,
So all over the web are debates and beyond about the virus vs plugins like sylenth, massive, kore2, the list goes on. I happened upon this thread:

http://www.access-music.de/forum/ind...=1068&pageNo=1

In which an amateur synth enthusiast posted a simple question regarding the virus and soft synths and got some very heated, rude in my opinion, answers that were uncalled for, disappointing, and just plain childish.
So let me, a very enthusiastic but novice synth user, ask this question (and hopefully get civil, adult-quality answers)

I opened up Logic and made two tracks, one with my TI2, one with sylenth. I set both to init and started plinking away on my midi controller and immediately noticed that the oscillators of sylenth SMASH the oscillators of the TI2 (and I AM running the ti2 through the analogue outs, not USB). I read somewhere that simply focusing on the oscillator sound of a synth is missing the "big picture," and that the virus still has the edge on plug ins, which I am completely open to believing, but I think I need a little convincing from some experts being that the first impression of the sounds of the two would lead me to believe that the soft synths are at least as good as the TI2.

One of my personal mottos and beliefs is that tools are tools and the artist is the artists blah blah blah, whatever But the way I see it, if it is possible to get GREAT VA sounds out of some computer programs, perhaps the better investment might be something like a DSI prophet or alesis andromeda to get the REAL analogue sound. (then drop in the U-he effects or something like that to add some flavor)

I don't really have a defined question to ask anyone, but I would like to hear the opinions of those who are very familiar with both the virus and the VSTs. Specifically anything that the virus could do that is out of reach of the VSTs (or vice versa?).
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  #2  
Old 29.08.2010, 12:23 AM
GV1UK GV1UK is offline
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It's simply a matter of personal preference.

I have probably on of the most powerful Macs in the world, yet the only AU/VSTi's I own are Massive and Albino. Neither can step close to the Virus ... and I'm not talking about processor speeds or ram.

One of the great aspects about the Virus is the sound. It has a unique sound, something that no other synth or VSTi can replicate. The sound quality is awesome.

Think about it logically. Access are a small company. But, the Virus is one of the most sought after synths in the world and they continue to sell out. The majority of people buying the Virus know why they want it. The buyers are not stupid.

The people that complain, are the people that failed to do the research in the first place. They didn't really need the virus, and now they have wasted their money they go on a ranting spree. I can bet money on it those users have never purchased a piece of software in their life.

Creating a sound on a synth is not just about selecting a waveform, wavetable, and fiddling with the envelopes. If you love synths as much as I do, you spend hours creating that perfect sound. I don't know about anyone else but I want that power at my fingertips. Every aspect of the virus does it's job perfectly.

I'm a fanatic.

Refactor the question to say "Why do you prefer the Virus over VSTi's". At the end of the day it boils down to why you like it and nobody else.
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  #3  
Old 29.08.2010, 12:26 AM
MBTC MBTC is offline
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I had a Ti2 desktop briefly. Dealing with latency, only 3 USB outs, polyphony limitations and such prompted me to send it back (mostly latency). In order to justify the price it would have needed to integrate into my workflow pretty much as a VST would, and I just could not get it to that level of productivity.

I do have Sylenth, Zebra2, and a new inexpensive one called Oresus that I think are capable of competing with the Ti2 in many ways. One of the reasons I wanted the Virus in the first place was really to offload rich hypersaw leads, get them off my CPU, to free up the PC to do other tasks. This is quite a fast PC, Core i7-965 Extreme Edition, but in even the best VST a dense hypersaw with lots of polyphony and reverb can end up eating up 35% or so of total CPU, so I wanted more elbow room.

I did feel that the sounds from the Virus cut through the mix a little better than the average softsynth. I also think most hardware filters respond better in some situations when compared to most VSTs. However I also think that the gap between the two has narrowed a great deal in recent years, and I've heard others say (and I do believe) that by the time the mix is all said and done you will not be able to tell which of the sounds came from hardware vs. software.

So to be honest, yes I think that if I demo individual sounds, Sylenth probably sounds as good as a Virus.. the big benefit for me was having a separate module that takes a huge chunk of the processing requirement of fat hypersaws with long reverb tail off my CPU, but all the latency issues just sent me running back to VSTs and RMA'ing the Virus, until at least I have reason to believe they have fixed their buggy software. Great synth but they need to get total integration working flawlessly in all popular hosts if they want to stay in business, because some VSTs are getting REALLY good.
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Old 29.08.2010, 12:29 AM
GV1UK GV1UK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBTC View Post
I had a Ti2 desktop briefly. Dealing with latency, only 3 USB outs, polyphony limitations and such prompted me to send it back (mostly latency). In order to justify the price it would have needed to integrate into my workflow pretty much as a VST would, and I just could not get it to that level of productivity.

I do have Sylenth, Zebra2, and a new inexpensive one called Oresus that I think are capable of competing with the Ti2 in many ways. One of the reasons I wanted the Virus in the first place was really to offload rich hypersaw leads, get them off my CPU, to free up the PC to do other tasks. This is quite a fast PC, Core i7-965 Extreme Edition, but in even the best VST a dense hypersaw with lots of polyphony and reverb can end up eating up 35% or so of total CPU, so I wanted more elbow room.

I did feel that the sounds from the Virus cut through the mix a little better than the average softsynth. I also think most hardware filters respond better in some situations when compared to most VSTs. However I also think that the gap between the two has narrowed a great deal in recent years, and I've heard others say (and I do believe) that by the time the mix is all said and done you will not be able to tell which of the sounds came from hardware vs. software.

So to be honest, yes I think that if I demo individual sounds, Sylenth probably sounds as good as a Virus.. the big benefit for me was having a separate module that takes a huge chunk of the processing requirement of fat hypersaws with long reverb tail off my CPU, but all the latency issues just sent me running back to VSTs and RMA'ing the Virus, until at least I have reason to believe they have fixed their buggy software. Great synth but they need to get total integration working flawlessly in all popular hosts if they want to stay in business, because some VSTs are getting REALLY good.
I have a TI desktop, and use it for some very big hypersaws, I also make use of the onboard effects. I've never had any issues, although I am using the latest software update.
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Old 29.08.2010, 12:52 AM
Barnelby Barnelby is offline
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Thanks guys, exactly the kind of knowledge and wisdom I am looking for! Hope more folks can chime in!
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Old 29.08.2010, 01:13 AM
MBTC MBTC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GV1UK View Post
I have a TI desktop, and use it for some very big hypersaws, I also make use of the onboard effects. I've never had any issues, although I am using the latest software update.
No latency problems at all? What was your host and operating system? I was using FLStudio on Win7 64bit. Others running different hosts reported no latency problems so mileage definately varies, but if you look through some of the various troubleshooting posts here you'll see there are lots of other folks having various issues, whether its latency, timing synchronization, other other quirky behavior (usually software related). Maybe my luck would have been better if I were using Cubase or maybe 32 bit version of Windows? I did a lot of research as this was something I had wanted for years, so I tried hard to make it work.
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Old 29.08.2010, 01:51 AM
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Hey friends, I can also shed some light on this one since I've been a softsynth user since the start, and then bought my TI at the start of last year.

I also own, Massive, Zebra2 and Sylenth1.

I truly think that each have their place. I absolutely adore these 3 softsynths, particularly Massive and Sylenth1 at the moment. They are truly amazing bits of kit. Their oscillators do indeed sound pristine compared to the Virus TI, however, they simply can't sound quite as gritty as the Virus. The Virus TI has a completely different tone to any of my VSTis, it sounds a bit more human, a lot more imperfect, which I just love for certain tasks.

Also, the TI filters are just incredible and the effects have a different character to most.

I have tried time and time again to replicate some of the TI sounds with software synths and can't come even close, and vise versa. Take the TI's "boingy" preset for example, really cool sound that is incredibly hard to replicate on anything other than a Virus. On the other hand, the TI can not do the insane, crazy sounds you can do in Massive for example.

Do you prefer Strawberries or Grapes? Both taste good, just depends on what you are the mood for. There is no better or worse between the Virus and native VSTis for me, they both rock and they both have their place, just like PCs and Macs.

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Old 29.08.2010, 03:54 AM
Barnelby Barnelby is offline
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But strawberries definitely have better hypersaws.
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Old 29.08.2010, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnelby View Post
But strawberries definitely have better hypersaws.
lol, yeah they do

Though I must admit that Zebra2, with it's Eleven mode can do a decent job too.
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Old 29.08.2010, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundpalace View Post
lol, yeah they do

Though I must admit that Zebra2, with it's Eleven mode can do a decent job too.
Not to mention you can have 4 of those if you want 44 saws!, running through all kinds of modulations and envelopes. It's the only plug-in I have that gives the flexibilty of modular synthesis, yet saving you from the drudgery of dealing with cable ins and outs.

Zebra takes a little longer to learn than the average synth, but the reward is worth it. Sylenth's beauty lies in its simplicity, and its ability to just sound beautifully analog, while Zebra can sound like analog or anything else you want it to (including synthetically emulating acousting instruments in a way sometimes indistinguishable from samples, although that takes more effort to get there.) The user defined filters and MSEG envelopes of Zebra give crazy possibilities.

Aside from those two staples, I've recently discovered Oresus, an amazing product, especially considering its only $45 US! The versatility is not in Zebra's league, but to my ears sound-wise it can compete with Sylenth, the Virus etc. and it's easy to program. It has an interesting UI that controls exponential / logorithmic filter variations that make it quick to make sounds that are harder to achieve on other synths.

Omnisphere is another one I really like. It's not cheap though, and one instance of the plugin feels kind of bulky, both in usability and CPU consumption. I should reach for it more often but for whatever reason I don't. It has such a massive and great library of waveforms to start with, but then I always end up stripping them out because I want the organic nature of a synth instead of a rompler (even though there is a lot you can do with them).

As far as VST versus hardware... I almost wonder if the next stage of advancements in CPU (or also possibly increased general use of GPUs for musical instruments and effects) will almost put the nail in the coffin of hardware synths. Personally I hope not. I cut my musical teeth on hardware, and there is a very special place in my heart for these instruments. They have a character and mystique that software will never have. But as CPUs and GPUs get faster and programmers get more clever, unless the integration of hardware synths can learn to not get in the way of workflow (latency, cables, synching everything up, etc) then I have to remain firm that I think software is the future.
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