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General discussion about Access Virus Discussion about Virus A, B, C and TI.

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  #11  
Old 29.08.2010, 07:04 AM
Barnelby Barnelby is offline
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Gah! No oresus for mac. Sad.
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  #12  
Old 29.08.2010, 08:57 AM
HUROLURA HUROLURA is offline
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Just a Virus newbie 2 cents tribute to the discussion (I just bought an old Virus A so I cannot tell anything about the Virus TI2).

First for me when thinking about such topic, is to keep in mind that sound and music are the most important.

Then working/playing flow is also of interest.
Value over lifetime is also important.

My general opinion is computer is at its best for sequencing, sampling and managing sound libraries.
Hardware is for me better solution for synth.
Any attempt to merge the best of both world is interesting for me (virus TI, clavia modular series, ... CreamWare/SonicCore Scope).

But here we should keep the discussion on sound synthesis quality.
There is theoretically no reason why a "hardware" VA should sound better or worse than a VST VA except for the programming talent of their designers.
Only other thing that can enter in line is DAC quality.

My experience so far is limited to hardware VA as I prefer hardware for workflow/lifetime value reasons.

The sound you can get out of different VA synth I own(ed) is obviously different from synth to synth because of their architecture differences.
I once had a Rompler with some synth abilities (digital filter ...) but the sound of VA is far nicer to my ears.
The model I know most are:
- Waldorf MicroWave: this one has its own flavour because of its synth principle (Waldorf WaveTable synthesis is really something special)
- Casio CZ: this one is special also because it is not a VA but the sound you can get out of it reminds the one you can get out of a filter though there is no filter inside. Once again some really special oscillator here.

These first two both have non standard oscillator that offer nice sound sources, combined with other nice tricks regarding enveloppe and modulation matrix to make the sound more living.
I do not know many VSTi offering such oscillator type, with the exception the propellerheads THOR which offer both these special oscillator types.

Clavia modular series is also a special thing in itself for its flexibility.

Regarding over VA I know: Waldorf MicroQ, Chameleon Australis, Novation KS and Access Virus are more similar in term of architecture but still sound quite differents because of details and specific tools they offer.

Now I should come to my favourite sounding VA synth which for me are sounding warmer than the others: the CreamWare/SonicCore gears which provide more warm bass sound. The Minimax, Pro12 and Prodyssey replicant just sound good though their sound design architecture is simpler than the one provided by the Virus/MicroQ for example.
The Minimax is meant to be a DSP clone of the original Minimoog (I do not have any Minimoog so I wouldn't dare to pretend it sounds the same) and provide a really good sounding solution (compared to the Arturia VST I already tried by a friend of mine for example) and the hardware control panel is just a pleasure compared to mouse editing. If we stick to sound only, this one (and the two other also) is also available in Scope PCI DSP boards, Noah and the cheap Plugiator/ASX series with similar quality (actually it is the same plugin powered by similar DSP with different host). Here a special mention about the really nice filter which is way ahead what I have with the other VA gears.
I have the same feeling regarding the Pro12 (inspired by the Prophet 5) which inherits from the more elaborate Prophet architecture (modulation matrix, unison, sync Osc). I also tried the VST form Native Instrument and Arturia without being really convinced (the idea of Arturia of merging Prophet 5 and Prophet VS in one gear is quite nice though). I do not mean they do not sound good, I just prefer the CreamWare sound.
Regarding The Prodyssey (an ARP Odyssey), the particular archtecture of the original Odyssey is great and the nice addition of the Minimax filter alternative is nice to have. Sadly, I never had the chance to compare it neither to an original Odyssey nor to their VST clones.

But I am really interested in what is offered by some more recent VSTi which I feel are offering new possibilities (propellerheads Thor, VA-1, Rob Papen VSTies, NI massive and Absynth ...) and the launch of the Muse Research Receptor and the SMProAudio V-Machines series could rise interest for me as I could have a hardware gear to host them.

I also would like to test the more recent Virus TI/TI2 and the Arturia Origin as I feel these are some of the most interesting of their generation.
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  #13  
Old 29.08.2010, 12:30 PM
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I think its easy to get lost in the hype... a good songwriter and a good producer will make it sound good. For mine, the TI has a definite warm and dark vibe. It blends nicely with the VSTs I prefer to use - Alchemy, NI Massive, and some other NI products (Reaktor/FM8, Kore 2) etc. I have no issues with getting it to work in my sequencer, and bouncing in real time is really not such a big deal. Perhaps a tad tongue in cheek, but if people spent less time posting about how long it took to bounce a track, and just spent it writing their music, then perhaps they would worry less .
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  #14  
Old 29.08.2010, 03:23 PM
HUROLURA HUROLURA is offline
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I think I guess I understand the trouble you can have...
Bouncing with a sequencer is something I just avoid.
To be clear: I only make home music based on "real" synths or scope DSP synths and FX.

For me, the most important in the sequencer is still the MIDI part. The Audio part is only used for final audio file mixdown. I know you could find me oldfashionned but that's my workflow.

For that reason, I do not have to deal with latencies issues and so on.
The CreamWare stuff is the only DSP solution I use. They provide a so called XTC mode which is meant to provide something similar to what is provided by UAD, TC, Duende and Liquid Mix DSP boards but there you have to take latency into account as audio flow has to be sent to DSP from the sequencer and then sent back to the sequencer.

That is just not the way I use the Scope DSP as I just send MIDI to the scope devices and then mixdown everything under scope in the original so called (low latency) Scope mode and feed the resulting audio flow from the scope into the seq.

That is also because the other devices I use are hardware ...
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  #15  
Old 29.08.2010, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feedingear View Post
Perhaps a tad tongue in cheek, but if people spent less time posting about how long it took to bounce a track, and just spent it writing their music, then perhaps they would worry less .
Except for the fact that some of us have access to a web forum at times when we do not necessarily have access to our music making gear.
Honestly, I think the bouncing down discussion has already been done, but my feelings there were more about the inflexibility of an audio file that represents what I did with the track at one point in time, versus one where I can still manipulate in real time RIGHT when the inspiration strikes to do so. I wasn't knocking those who have made bouncing down an integrated part of the process. It's just a shame we have to at all with all of the CPU power available these days.
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  #16  
Old 29.08.2010, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnelby View Post
Gah! No oresus for mac. Sad.
That might be one reason the price is so low. Sylenth was PC only until not long ago... it seems to be the trend for many synths to begin on PC, so maybe an Oresus Mac port will appear some day.
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  #17  
Old 31.08.2010, 12:23 AM
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Default a very subjective topic

i think this type of discussion is pretty difficult to make sense of.
how can you compare a piece of hardware with 1's and 0's (software)...its like trying to compare apples and oranges.
for starters you can sit down in front of a Virus and start jamming etc...you dont have to boot up your PC and fire up software.
I love both, but they are completely different beasts.
As for the sound difference, that is personal preference, although i do love the sound that a dedicated DSP creates.
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  #18  
Old 31.08.2010, 07:37 PM
HUROLURA HUROLURA is offline
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With the exception of real analog synth, there is also software embedded in hardware synth. Both apples and oranges are fruits but they do not taste the same.
But both taste good !!!
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  #19  
Old 31.08.2010, 09:19 PM
MBTC MBTC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synthfiend View Post
i think this type of discussion is pretty difficult to make sense of.
how can you compare a piece of hardware with 1's and 0's (software)...its like trying to compare apples and oranges.
for starters you can sit down in front of a Virus and start jamming etc...you dont have to boot up your PC and fire up software.
I love both, but they are completely different beasts.
As for the sound difference, that is personal preference, although i do love the sound that a dedicated DSP creates.
Well in my case, my PC is always on (no booting required) because I use it for other things I would never leave my music hardware on 24x7, heat dissipation and airflow in music hardware is nothing like a good tower case, just begging for failure and higher power bills.

But I agree it is an apples and oranges comparison. I cut my teeth on a pure hardware environment and I am now almost exclusively software. If only I could find a way to benefit from the beneifts (and coolness factor) of hardware with the workflow ease, flexibility, and perfect timing/synchronization of software.
I love acquiring new synth gear, its a feeling buying a new VST doesn't really give me. And I like the modularity of adding new pieces of dedicated kit that are responsible for its own processing instead of all needing to pass through a single CPU.

What irks me though is I started with hardware back in the 80s. We were thrilled to have MIDI back then. The reality was that to get the timing of everything just right was a real pain. And 25 years later, it seems like a lot of the same issues exist. But then if I produce solely with VSTs, I get perfect timing, no latency of running through cables, perfect compatibility, ease of automation, ease of everything.

There is nothing I'd love more for hardware vendors to figure out how to give the dedicated processing of hardware, but the integration of VST. Sadly it seems like things in the hardware scene have stalled, while VSTs continue to get better sounding.
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  #20  
Old 01.09.2010, 09:15 PM
HUROLURA HUROLURA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBTC View Post
There is nothing I'd love more for hardware vendors to figure out how to give the dedicated processing of hardware, but the integration of VST. Sadly it seems like things in the hardware scene have stalled, while VSTs continue to get better sounding.
I wouldn't agree on that. VSTi is easier to design (no hardware constraint). So more people can offer new advanced solution without being forced to be big companies.

On the hardware side, after the rise and fall of hardware samplers which are mainly replaced by software based DAW, the synth inovation landscape showsome enhancement from time to time among which I would notice:
- the Virus TI concept which I find really clever though actually I never tested it but I feel this is the challenge for other maufacturers.
- the virtual modular concept initially invented with 2 different solution by clavia with their Nord Modular and CreamWare with their PCI DSP based Modular/Elektra solution at the end of the 90's were really interesting and still made progress rencently on the Scope size with the launch of the Mod IV version associated withe the Xite-1 rack.
- the Arturia Origin which provides a new attempt to get something symbiotic out of a hardware and software modular mix
- the awaited John Bowen Solaris

Actually I think there is more space for VA synth now than for Rompler as one could get better result with VSTi and maybe a solution with VSTi host like Muse Research Receptor or SMProAudio V-Machines...

I just think hardware control on a synth is just a must.
Access Virus and Clavia nord lead have shown the way in their time providing good sunding instruments easy to edit and fun to play.
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