Winter NAMM 2014 gear (all manufacturers)

[Timo]

AIRA product info:

http://www.roland.com/products/en/SYSTEM-1/
http://www.roland.com/products/en/TR-8/
http://www.roland.com/products/en/TB-3/
http://www.roland.com/products/en/VT-3/

System1 (a follow on from the System 100/100M/700 of the 70's) looked good as you'd also be able to load in Roland software plugins to emulate other Roland synths such as the SH101, until I read no velocity on the keys, wtfark?

Initial hands-on TB3 and TR8 Sonicstate demos:

TB-3 (Touch Bassline)


http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2014/...-21st-century/
£245.

TR-8 (inc. 9o9)


http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2014/...-drum-machine/
£400.

AIRA will be officially unveiled tomorrow at Utrecht Dancefair 2014, Netherlands.

Cue Berni ranting and various insults...

[Berni]

Originally Posted by Timo

Cue Berni ranting and various insults...

OK then...butt ugly, overpriced, NON analog, NON upgradable, NON customizable pieces of plastic that sound about as current as Hawkwind

[TweakHead]

well, this feels a overpriced, certainly not analogue, don't know about upgrades, being digital might get an update or two... the mesmerizing thing about them, though, is that they're really as useful as D16's group plug-ins, in that it's some digital recreation of the classics and that's it, they haven't gone the extra mile to actually make this things talk to new audiences, with more features, most of which are mentioned on this videos...

the 303 clone is pretty much proof that they haven't learned from their previous MC 303 products and how people usually compare them to real 303, which is a synthesizer, albeit a fairly simple one, perhaps one of the worst sounding filters ever built, but contributed to "that" sound... seriously, I'd much rather get a XOXBox instead of this, 'cause I'd be getting an analogue filter whose circuit has been as close to the original as humanely possible. plus cv to use the sequencer on other machines, besides that very special sound that you either love or hate (I do like it)... the introduction of some glitchy stuff, and their attempt to introduce normal teebee sounds with the added distortion and fx thing could be cool, if they were real fx to use instead of "roompler" shit...

same thing with the 808/909... the only appeal it's got, besides being a piece of history is for some purists to get "that" sound synthesized that particular way that's had a tremendous influence on many many genres. if you're going digital with this, might as well get some sample packs, or even use Maschine' s drum synthesizers or other plug-ins or instruments, and the sound won't be to far off from these things... and the interface, workflow, even the new features feel... lame!

but when he turns the two together we get a sense of what this could be about: those sounds combined together is music history. shame the company that's done it doesn't live up to their own legacy, just a money trick, nothing to see here...

[Berni]

Originally Posted by TweakHead

same thing with the 808/909... the only appeal it's got, besides being a piece of history is for some purists to get "that" sound synthesized that particular way that's had a tremendous influence on many many genres. if you're going digital with this, might as well get some sample packs, or even use Maschine' s drum synthesizers or other plug-ins or instruments, and the sound won't be to far off from these things... and the interface, workflow, even the new features feel... lame!

Yeah I agree tweak & they are not trying to reproduce a fricken church organ, it's just basic kicks, snare's, hi hats etc. & even so called 'purist's' whoever the fuck they are could not tell the difference between this thing, the real thing or the sampled thing in the mix. Any basic synth like Live's operator or Mashines synth drums to name a few can easily replicate the sounds of the 808/909. Complete waste of time & totally relying on there legacy to sell this recycled & out dated crap...rant over

[MBTC]

As far as I can tell these TR/TB machines are just romplers with fixed samples from the legacy machines. It seems just crazy to release something like that up against the likes of Maschine, where you have a sample library of incredible size, and/or VA drum synths , and/or the use of third party VST plugins to generate the sounds, and/or can be used as a sampler to sample analog sounds from my Leipzig or some other synth, or any combination of the above. How can they expect anyone to get excited over "134 presets" in this day and age? Yes I know these little boxes have their own processor but neither percussion nor bass grooves use much CPU there, so there's not a lot gained from that.

I was a little intrigued by the SYSTEM-1 synth, wondering at first what they meant by "Plug-out" technology. Apparently this is the ability of the DSP on the synth to host plug-ins independent of your computer -- now that's starting to sound useful. But wait, not the VST's you already have, but apparently they mean rather Roland-specific plug-ins that they may or may not release in the future, hoping to sell to us at currently unannounced price points or release schedules... Maybe that SH-101 emulation will materialize and maybe not! That little wheel on the thing must be like the wheel of fortune, you pay your money then spin it for some promise of a random result. Meanwhile the thing only does 4 voices, only has a 2 octave keyboard, and they are pricing in the range of Ultranova apparently?

Are we supposed to laugh with them or at them?

[Timo]

Originally Posted by MBTC

As far as I can tell these TR/TB machines are just romplers with fixed samples from the legacy machines.

No samples in any of them, it's all virtual analogue.

[Timo]

Originally Posted by Berni

OK then...butt ugly, overpriced, NON analog, NON upgradable, NON customizable pieces of plastic that sound about as current as Hawkwind

Devil's advocate, regards upgrades/customize/VA/price, the TR-8 will have TR707 emulation added to it in a future update. So virtual analogue 808, 909 and 707 in one box with sequencing and a stack of other features. Something you couldn't easily do with real analogue without the price going stratospheric.

It was stated that the System-1 (based on their former System 100 analogue synth) will have SH-101 and SH-7 models added to it, possibly more. Again, nigh on impossible with real analogue.

I think you stand to get a lot more out of them than the Volcas.

[TweakHead]

Originally Posted by Timo

Devil's advocate, regards upgrades/customize/VA/price, the TR-8 will have TR707 emulation added to it in a future update. So virtual analogue 808, 909 and 707 in one box with sequencing and a stack of other features. Something you couldn't easily do with real analogue without the price going stratospheric.

It was stated that the System-1 (based on their former System 100 analogue synth) will have at least SH-101 and SH-7 models added to it, and likely more. Again, nigh on impossible with real analogue.

I think you stand to get a lot more out of them than the Volcas.

agreed. but comparing the prices, there's a difference. and the volca's have the extra appeal of being entry level analogue circuit machines...

the SH 101 plug-in makes it look like they've got an eye on the money that's being made recreating their classics. only thing is: good luck trying to beat Lush 101 or Tal Noise's new 101 on that department - even them being the original creators of the classics. They make some statement on that department, but it's almost laughable, creating a diagram for an electric circuit (analogue synth) is one thing, being able to reproduce this behaviour on a digital platform is quite another. Being proficient at the first doesn't necessarily mean you will succeed in the other and vice-versa. DSP has come a long way, and the competition is using very recent technology on their products like the zero feedback delay filters, for instance, and the random factor on the oscillators goes wey beyond simple drift and free running waves, it's all tweaked to near perfection these days...

like Berni said, I highly doubt that the purists would be able to tell the difference in a mix. and even if they could, it's neglegible at best. character is cool of course, but goes into a package called "nuances" in audio, and when you're surfing similar watters, even using the Virus, for example, you can get damn close to it. So I really don't see the appeal here, even less so to people that own said plug-ins that already emulate this classic. Same thing with the Juno family, and even the JP8080.

I have to admit that a DSP synthesizer with a decent interface that can load other synthesizers to use the internal DSP is an idea that appeals to me. I think I've talked about this with MBTC before. But the idea discussed back then, to my mind, was something more open - to third party developers - and more feature rich, like a Nord Modular. If you're getting simpler then most digital plug-ins, with a controller and a DSP, and it's all by Roland, and they're only aiming to emulate their own - very simple architecture - synthesizers, I see this as being an entry level synthesis thing for kids that are starting to make their own productions, and perhaps even a good platform for learning the basics of subtractive synthesis; but nothing that could compete with my Virus C, UltraNova (or SuperNova), Nord Lead, Korg MS 2000, Radias, Prophecy, Nord Modular, so forth and so on...

How come they can't simply profit from this wave of new analogue mono instruments and present us something similar to their good old SH 101, a simple and cheap instrument whose interface and features inspire you to use it a lot. Like Novation did with their Bass Station 2, for example. Even though the sound of it isn't very Rolandish, the interface and features are rather similar - and more appealing to me then just another emulation, with a controller attached to it.

If you think offering 707, 808 and 909 in one package is cool, take a look at Arturia's Spark and think about that again, I mean... But wait, Arturia also has plenty more drum machines in their package, Linn Drums and all of that..

But must be fun to play with them all at once, not saying otherwise: instant old school rave music with tweakage very similar to the originals.

Is there anyone here that would actually prefer to have this instead of a XOXBOX (for 303), and Acid Labs Miami (TR)? anyone? not a single person? noooo ooooone?

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by Timo

No samples in any of them, it's all virtual analogue.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what these things are. In the Sonicstate vid for the TB-3, if you watch right around the 3-4 minute range, he seems to basically say there is kind of a synth engine in there but you can't really get into it and do anything with it. I assume this means you've got a bunch of waveforms, some of which are basic like saw/square and some of them are more elaborate "synth sounds". But you cannot change the way the virtual oscillators "oscillate" in any meaningful way. Even just looking at what's available on the front panel, it looks like there's not enough knobs to be anything like a real VA synth, even an entry level one. Being able to just change cutoff, decay etc is something along the lines of what a rompler like Nexus provides.

I could be wrong but that's what I read into it. If you look at the official spec sheet from Roland, it says "Instruments Preset Patches: 134" and says nothing about oscillators or ability to create your own sounds. Not saying it doesn't have it, just saying that's where I came away with the impression I did. It says I can store up to 64 user created patterns but doesn't say anything about user created sounds.

[namnibor]

Roland is notorious for using semantics to their advantage...and...does anyone remember when Roland *did their own thing with the MIDI Spec*....and how I think GM2 came to be?

Nick Batt did not hide his DISDAIN for TB3 in his review. Yes, it was loud and clear to me that you can NOT get to the synth engine to do any meaningful tweaks and looks to me to be aimed directly to the newer, young incredibly self-entitled "instant music gratification LIVE fans" or it's Roland actually not having any remaining engineers nor documentation of their own classic instruments, unlike Korg, whom reproduced the MS-20 in 87% size but same sound and interface.
Almost seems like Roland's lame attempt to COPY Korg's Kaosolator Series with that quasi touch pad. I would think a Stylophone would be just as "modern" as this crap-tastic attempt on Roland's part.
Still seems like samples...just by another name. I will eat crow when am found to be wrong and enjoy it at same time.

All amusing to watch happen...meanwhile, we all have the mother of modern DSP Synthesis; VIRUS!