My first psybass created, who helps me improve?

[timtico]

Hi guys,

Since a couple of weeks I'm the proud owner of a Virus TI2 Polar, actually my first "real" synth..
I'm trying to create a bass sound, suitable for full on psytrance. I'm not looking for anything too funky, atm I'm looking for a "dark psy" pattern like
kbbbkbbbkbbbkbbb (bassnote at E2). Anyway, I've been reading alot, online and in some books I bought... and this is what I've used to create a bass sound so far, it's abit technical but ok:

Oscillator section:

Osc 1, sawtooth, pw at 50% (osc 2 and 3 are off)
Keyfollow at default setting (32?)
Punch intensity quite low (27), high settings don't seem to sound nice.
Sub osc, volume at max (127)

Too make the bassound a tiny little less dry I mixed in a tiny bit of sinewave (Grain simple, Sine 64) in using Ocs 2 (Osc 1/2 balance at -34, osc1 and 2 synced ofcourse)

osc mixer: no noise or ring modulation. Saturation at max

Filter 1 (filter balance totally counterclockwise, so only filter one is used)
Envelope amount at 54
tiny bit of resonance (13)
filter cutoff quite low (24)
(non mentioned settings at zero)
Filter envelope: ADSSR = 0,32,0,0,0
Amplifier envelope: ADSSR = 0,39,0,0,0
LFO: none
Matrix: Besides standard settings, Filter Envelope --> Filter Env Decay, +29
Fx: Analog boost maxed out, Distortion at 30 with waveshaper as distortion type
no other fx.

for most people this would probably be abit dull basssound, but since i'm in the process of learning, I want to start with a lean and mean bassline.

Now, I would like to know how you guys make your psy bass-sounds using the Virus.

- What kind of osscilator mixes sound nice, I heard that sawtooth + square is nice, but I have not obtained good results with that

- It is important to have your kickdrum fit with your bass. The approach i take now is to lower/increase the frequency start/end of my bassdrum until it "sounds" good (i'm using the VST Bassizm for my kickdrums). But is there a more scientific approach in harmonizing kicks and bass?

- The matrix setting Filter envelope --> Filter env decay seems to give a desired effect.. I read that it makes the filterdecay more concave.. but what is meant by this (Access Virus tutorial by Howard Scarr)

- What are the tricks for the more boombastic and wicked type of basssounds, LFO?

- Any general tips for improvement?

[horsegrip]

Can you record a snippet, so that we can hear?
Or a SysEx patch we can load up?

[timtico]

Hi thanks for helping me

I made a new patch and exported this particular psybass i'm working on to that one. I presume you can use this mid file in many virus versions

download from my box account:

http://www.box.net/shared/rgbfgg916c

[nutrinoland]

hi...i checked out your bass...its pretty nice.....there is still something lacking though...it seems a little thin and small....ofcourse i did not process/eq/sidechain compress etc...maybe that will bring out the fatness....not sure though..i'll experiment more with it..

have you worked on any newer bass patches? i would love to check them out....also anything else psy+virus TI that you have or have made....


i love digital talks music....my style is a little bit like that.....only a little bit like that...still gotta learn alot....
i wonder what synths digital talk uses.....

[Subatomic]

Hey guys!

Nice to see more psy-people around here.

Two main ingredients for the psybasslinesound on the TI is putting the phase init right and the envelopes.

You can make a psybass out of most osc and most of them are relatively simple to make. But it's all relative to your bassdrum which should always be in the same tone.

Having said that, a good bassound isn't everything. You need a lot of EQ and sidechain compression. If you are using Cubase for sidechain compression, be sure to put compression of the bassline on insert 7 or 8. This way it will be behind the EQ in the chain.

A starting point for a psysound could be:

Osc 1 Saw, Osc 2 Wave 46
Portamento 3/4
Sub osc halfway open
Saturation 3/4 ' Middle'

Envelopes

Filter
A 10
D 100
s 15
R 40

Amp

A 0
D 0
S 100
R 10

Filters ( ser6)
Velocity open op filter 1

1:BANDPASS 45 with 20 resonance
2: BP or HP. Bandpass + 20. Highpass very low

LFO's

LFO 1

1/1 Sine, Both OSC to full

LFO 2 1/4 triangle

to Filter1 -20%
to filter2 + 20%


Just try this and experiment, You'll get the hang of it.

[timtico]

Thanks for your replies guys...

@Subatomic, can you please upload the midi file containing the virus settings? When I try to recreate a bass-sound with your settings It turns into something strange and glitchy.. I think i'm doing something wrong.

[timtico]

@Nutrinoland,

Atm I'm focusing on making very atmospheric pads, basically reverse engineering of some great patches in the Virus (any tips?). Since I'm relatively new to this synthesizer programming I'm not using the Virus for my basses, as I feel VST like VB-1 and Alien303. However, they both give me too little control and now I get to understand my Virus better I want to get back to that machine to also make bassounds.... and they are not as simple as I would have expected to create

[Subatomic]

Originally Posted by timtico

Thanks for your replies guys...

@Subatomic, can you please upload the midi file containing the virus settings? When I try to recreate a bass-sound with your settings It turns into something strange and glitchy.. I think i'm doing something wrong.

When you reread my post, you'll see that this is a psysound and not so much a psybass. It should be a typical ripping effect of psy.
Lemme see, maybe I entered the values wrong.

I'll make a psybass for you tho.

[timtico]

yes, it was a "sound" indeed I got by following your settings. Looking forward to see your settings. I learn heaps by reverse engineering patches.

Been working on this track today, and it's incredible how much difference very small things can make . Althought this is probably common knowledge for most producers, for me it was kinda refreshing:

- A little dash of reverb (e.g. small hall, short decay time, very dry) can do wonders to lift up your bassline.

- parallel filters in Ableton: duplicating a bassline on two different channels, One bandpass at a low setting and on the other channel a bandpass at higher frequency... can be great. Crisp basslines without being muddy.

(Does anybody know how to put the autofilter in Ableton in parallel?.. will have to take a look into this, should probably be routing audiochannels or something...)

[Subatomic]

Originally Posted by timtico

yes, it was a "sound" indeed I got by following your settings. Looking forward to see your settings. I learn heaps by reverse engineering patches.

Been working on this track today, and it's incredible how much difference very small things can make . Althought this is probably common knowledge for most producers, for me it was kinda refreshing:

- A little dash of reverb (e.g. small hall, short decay time, very dry) can do wonders to lift up your bassline.

- parallel filters in Ableton: duplicating a bassline on two different channels, One bandpass at a low setting and on the other channel a bandpass at higher frequency... can be great. Crisp basslines without being muddy.

(Does anybody know how to put the autofilter in Ableton in parallel?.. will have to take a look into this, should probably be routing audiochannels or something...)

I must say I never use reverb on the bassline, I tend to keep it dry and spice it with some saturation or even tube compression. That has everything to do with mixing other stuff in. Keeping the bassline as dry (and mono) as possible makes it much easier to mix.

Putting reverb on basslines may sound 'better' but remember, the bassline is only the backbone. A good bassline is supposed to sit well and ' aid' other instruments. Apart from that you are more likely to have phase-problems and muddyness in lows later on.

I don't use Ableton, so I fear I cannot help you.

On leadsounds try bouncing it to audio, reversing it and then putting the forementioned reverb over it and reversing it back. It's a trick common in breakbeatgenre's, but works well in psy as well.