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Old 23.02.2013, 11:47 PM
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Default Ultranova - Got one! Here are my thoughts..

I picked one of these up because:

1. I'm a former hardware guy turned software guy, but I still have gear lust and wanted to start dabbling in hardware again without quite yet blowing a wad on more expensive synths that I've been eyeballing
2. It was cheap ($600 new) / good specs for the price
3. Everyone that has one of these seems to love it
4. The software integration was intriguing, and unlike the virus VC software everyone seems thrilled with the software plugin.
5. I always liked the Supernova sound. I'm a weirdo that actually likes VA as much or more than true analog
6. I had listened to one at a music store and it seemed like a lot of synth for the money
7. The touch - knobs were interesting
8. I use a Novation MIDI controller already and a Focusrite audio interface, and think fondly of their gear

For a couple of days I just plugged it in worked through patches and programming using headphones. There is definately an "instantaneous" feel to a hardware synth that takes some fiddling to duplicate in a purely software environment. It could be mostly psychological, but when you play through factory patches on a hardware synth, most of them have been tweaked to take advantage of that board, with regard to mod wheel, aftertouch etc.

One of my "tests" of a synth is to create some sort of resource draining wet supersaw-type unison patch (or sometimes a string pad-like sound with a very long release) and then play a bunch of notes to get a feel for when polyphony starts dropping out (or in the case of some soft-synths, when the CPU meter gets rediculously high). I have to say here that the Ultranova fared better with this than I expected. I literally A/B'd it up against Zebra, which can be a monstrous supersaw beast if you don't mind parting with some CPU to get there. I put the Ultranova's 3 oscillators (unison x 4), fattented with some chorus and delay against Zebra's 4 oscillators running in "Eleven" mode (44 osc!), and tried to get the detune settings about the same on each. They were almost indistinguishable! With a long release envelope (which would not be typical for a patch like this anyway), there was a point where of course the Ultranova started dropping notes but it was at a point where Zebra2 would have been using an inordinate amount of CPU if used in a real track with other things going on, and would have most likely needed to be bounced down to an audio clip anyway.

Now the shocker? This was phenomenally better than the Virus Ti2 Desktop did in my very unscientific benchmarking experiments with polyphony a few years ago when I briefly had my hands on one. I did not perform the exact same steps, so this is an admittedly subjective evaluation, and thus nobody should quote me as saying the Ultranova is more powerful than the Virus Ti2. Also, there was so much wrestling with the VirusControl software and the driver at that time, that I did not have as much time to spend learning how to program the Virus as I already learned in a matter of hours with the trouble-free Ultranova, so it is by no means a fair comparison. I'm just saying that for a 3 osc synth with limited capabilities on paper, it can sound surprisingly fat and hold its own with polyphony.

Now shocker #2. The editor, running as a plug-in in FLStudio, just friggin works. No latency, no crashes, no excuses, it just seems to work and communicate beautifully with the synth over USB. Although again this is not quite an apples-to-apples comparison with Virus Control because I'm not using the Ultranova's built in audio interface like I was with the Virus, and I also am sending audio from the outs over 1/4 to the interface. The comparison here is not really to say the Ultranova software works and Virus Control doesn't, it's just that the out of box experience, comparing the Ultranova in 2013 to my experience with VC in 2009 is like night and day different. From what I've read, the VC problems still exist for most folks... what's going on, Access?

I've really only messed with this synth on the surface, but the editor is REALLY nice, and where things stand right now I'm quite happy with the purchase.

About the only negative thing I could say about it yet is that 37 keys really cramps my style for all but a few one-handed type uses. Just having another octave on my Novation remote makes a big difference in terms of actually putting down an arrangement. If I do get another Virus, I don't think I will get a desktop like I did before, but rather splurge for a 61-key.

{updating with new information... I did eventually upgrade my main controller to an MKII 61-key after this thread}

Back to the only negative, with a 37-key synth like this, you sometimes find that some patches sound good only within the limited number of octaves offered by the synth, maybe one up and one down. It is harder to make sounds sound great across more octaves, and most folks don't bother with a synth with this many keys.

I still have a lot to learn about it but if anyone has specific questions I'd be glad to try to answer.

Last edited by MBTC : 23.08.2013 at 06:18 AM.
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Old 24.02.2013, 09:47 AM
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Nice purchase, i got a Mininova and i like it very much because of its real timeperformance buttons (as the touch sensitive knobs on the Ultranova).

The sounds are great, and the vst interface is a winner.

3 octaves are synth-friendly for me; sometimes it's better to use 2 keyboards for sound purposes, i mean 2 different sounds. But if you like to use more keys your second keyboard solution is the right choice.

If you would like to share some custom made sounds let me know.
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Old 24.02.2013, 03:48 PM
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Kind of amazing value overall, aren't they? When you consider the sound itself, the software integration, the hardware features (real time tweak buttons/touch, etc), and overall quality, these boards might be one of the better values out there. Just the fact that I can put something like a reverby lead or a pad or something onto this can save me something like 15-20% CPU in a real mix without even bouncing down, which is more than the numbers indicate since my projects typically start flaking out if they get over 70% CPU or so.

For the keys, I've been getting by with 49 keys for my primary controller for years now, but I originally cut my teeth on 61 and that's always what feels most natural for me when playing, so that will be my target size for my next KB. I didn't get the Ultranova for a primary controller, I will still use the Remote SL 49 for that for now.

{updating many months later for reference... my old 49'er eventually crapped out!... MKII I have now seems better, we'll see though...}

I haven't really gotten around to creating many sounds yet but will touch base with you on swapping when I do.

I think you've got a Virus also, if I'm not mistaken -- curious which model and in your opinion how does the overal Nova sound compare and contrast?

Last edited by MBTC : 23.08.2013 at 06:21 AM.
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Old 25.02.2013, 08:58 AM
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Yes i got a Virus C desktop and i love it.
Compared to the Mininova i found it to be a little more deep and obscure in some timbres. The pads made with the Virus are incredible.

On the other hand the Mininova got an interesting grit and overdrive that is quite unique to me. It reminds me a kind of analog saturation that is amazing on custom made sounds.
It beats the Virus C on the vst integration and the real time tweaking using the performance buttons.

The only weak points of my Mininova is the lack of knobs of course and the monotimbrality, but the Virus C and the Novas got strong timbres that could be very similar to each other, but also be different with their own distinct character.
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Old 25.02.2013, 10:45 AM
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I forgot to say that i sold a DSI Tetra for the Mininova, and i would never go back. The Tetra is analog but retro sounding and a pain to program. And its sounds got many limits.

The Novas are powerful and eclectic.
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Old 25.02.2013, 11:47 AM
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I still have my Novation Supernova 1 rack and keep it because it really is a capable beast and much different sound to Virus KC, so the variety works for me, plus the highly capable polyphonic 8 track arp allows for the versatile use of effects per part without limitations. Only other Novation own is my favorite controller, Remote SL 61 MKII with two midi outs...I really do not work well with a smaller keybed with only exception being 39 key DSI MonoEvolverKeyboard--that just works for it's massive sound canvas! Glad you guys seem to have no glitches with it's vst integration though.
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Old 25.02.2013, 06:16 PM
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In terms of sound, how much is the Ultranova like the original Supernova? Can you tell, from hearing them, that they are from the same family (like the Virus A, B, C are to the TI), or are they totally new synth engines? How does it fit in compared against the K-Station series, too, given they have similar feature sets?

Reason being, I checked out a few Ultranova audio demos and reviews on youtube and unfortunately I was disappointed with all of them. To me sounds like it has a kinda plasticky, digital, thin, phasey sound to it. I did however like the K-Station demos from a few years ago.

For example on the Sonic State overview...



... the supersaw at 2:57 onwards on the Ultranova sounds horribly phasey and weak when dialing in the detune and hitting new keys (more specifically it resets the trig phase of all the multiple detuned saws at note-on each time, so you get a "peeow, peeow" sound every time you press a key as they all start in phase then detune away from each other, rather than starting them as free-running entities to begin with, regardless of detune amount) and I've noticed this undesirable artefact effect is common in other people's Ultranova demos too. My Korg Radias does the same thing and I hate it. Furthermore, there appears to be no compensation for the change in volume that is heard when all the saw waves are being phased triggered at note-on (i.e. when they're all summed, creating a large spike in volume at note-on, then decaying away as the individual saws separate), compared to whether they were all free running phase wise (always a more consistent, average level). Same problem with the Radias, so unfortunately I end up never using the supersaw oscillator type.

You say the Ultranova fairs better at supersaws than the TI|2? The original TI|1 had 80 voices of poly using the hypersaw, whereas the Ultranova has upto 18 note poly, so not sure how you figured that?

Monotimbrality is a bit disappointing.

However I really liked the idea of the extended LFO waveforms, some effectively as mini step sequencers. No idea why most synth companies fail to add more musical, creative LFO shapes like these, and instead restrict themselves to just the Sin/Tri/Sq/Saw waveforms (useful though they are, it would be nice to have more creativity and variety).

I do like the touch sensitive knobs, that's a good performance feature for triggering multiple modulations on cue.

Overall very good for the price, though. The price of Virus in comparison is ridiculous.
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Old 25.02.2013, 07:18 PM
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However, for the price, one could get Blofeld, which has a much more powerful and versatile synth engine. After to listening to the review again posted that indeed had seen many when UltraNova first was released; compared to sound of the Supernova or dare say even the Nova tabletop, it sounds more like casio cz series reboxed and used the "Nova" name to give some sort of pseudo legacy. Six envelopes are great to have if the sound engine has a massive capability to sculpt it without sounding as Timo rightly said, VERY phasey. Perhaps Novation was simply going for mainly the DJ market? Too bad Novation seemed to drop original Supernova line after the Supernova 2 rack. Having said that, and knowing the Supernova 2 has many more great functions added than my original Supernova 1 rack, I would not trade it for any of the 'bastard grandchildren' of the 'Nova-namesake' post-Supernova 2. Novation do make awesome controllers (Remote SL MKII series), of which it seems touch sensative controls and exact same screen are used on the Ultranova, but as the review showed, those encoders looked like they would not take much abuse without trepidation; of which, the Remote Sl MKII does not suffer from. (a buddy of mine said as much as he even hated Roland's Gaia, he felt they easily could have been designed by same engineers...he owned both at different times for less than a week)
On a similar note that Timo mentioned about Korg Radias; it's definitely going to be sold or even donated to university music dept. as it is very underwhelming compared to other synths am working with and try as I may, the Radias ALWAYS wants to sound so fraking HAPPY and plasticky. The Virus's older engines still eat most of anything out there for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and scooby snacks inbetween!!
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Old 25.02.2013, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oscillator View Post
Yes i got a Virus C desktop and i love it.
Compared to the Mininova i found it to be a little more deep and obscure in some timbres. The pads made with the Virus are incredible.

On the other hand the Mininova got an interesting grit and overdrive that is quite unique to me. It reminds me a kind of analog saturation that is amazing on custom made sounds.
It beats the Virus C on the vst integration and the real time tweaking using the performance buttons.

The only weak points of my Mininova is the lack of knobs of course and the monotimbrality, but the Virus C and the Novas got strong timbres that could be very similar to each other, but also be different with their own distinct character.
Yes, it's that gritty quality that comes out of the Nova quickly that I think I like so much. On certain sounds it reminds me of a hardware version of Massive, although the programming UI is very different.

With regard to the nova vs. virus on pads, its hard for me to comment because I never judge a synth by the presets, I learned my lesson with a number of softsynths, where the presets sound blah but some of the aftermarket soundsets are amazing. I think the same is true with the Virus, default sounds on the Ti2 as I recall,....not so great, but I know the Virus can go sonically where I want because I've heard 3rd party sounds that do. So, the pads on the Ultranova presets are okay at best, but I've already played around with it to know that they can be fattened up quite a bit with a little tweaking. I plan to see what's available for aftermarket sound sets on this... right now it seems some of the soundcloud links from Novations website aren't even working, how are they going to sell those sounds?

There is definately a level of programming complexity here that is available via the VST that would be difficult to do same from just the knobs and display. That is one of the limits of hardware-only synths that I wanted to avoid, and why the Ultranova and Virus are higher on my wish list. Things like adjusting the slope of individual lines on the ADSR envelopes... I guess it is doable with knobs but it's not the same if you're reading numbers, requires a visual representation I think.
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Old 25.02.2013, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namnibor View Post
I still have my Novation Supernova 1 rack and keep it because it really is a capable beast and much different sound to Virus KC, so the variety works for me, plus the highly capable polyphonic 8 track arp allows for the versatile use of effects per part without limitations. Only other Novation own is my favorite controller, Remote SL 61 MKII with two midi outs...I really do not work well with a smaller keybed with only exception being 39 key DSI MonoEvolverKeyboard--that just works for it's massive sound canvas! Glad you guys seem to have no glitches with it's vst integration though.
Since I've been playing with it, I've run into a few glitches with the VST but I'm not sure how many are related to the host (FLS), my vid card, etc. One is just that the VST sometimes does not paint the window properly sometimes (just a visual bug), which seems minor because I can close and reopen it to fix that (inconvenient but seems to work). The other is that a few times last night, my entire host crashed. I have seen that on rare occasion with a few softsynth plugins, and my remedy was to run the VST in bridged mode (which I guess runs the plugin in its own process so it can't crash the host). So far so good in bridged mode but I'm keeping an eye on it. One good thing about hardware synths is that even if you're entire host goes tits up, at least the synth still has all the sound data Of course it's not good if you're arranging a track and your synth brings down all of your recent project work with the plugin .... As I said, bridged mode seems to fix that particular problem as far as I can see from here, and I'm not sure whether to blame the plugin or the host. I'm also using the Saffire audio interface instead of the one built into the Ultranova... I saw someone on the FLS forum say that they could only get the Ultranova to work via USB with its own audio interface, though it was an older post. Maybe I'm doing something unconventional here that's throwing a monkey wrench in, using USB to interface with the synth, but using the Saffire for everything else.

We'll have to see about long term VST stability but so far I'm still quite pleased.
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