Multi Timbral problems

[Synthtoast]

Hi, i have noticed over the years that the virus ti does not perform well when more than one patch is playing at the same time, apart from the obvious note stealing, which is something that cant be cured and is just a side effect of a polyphony limit, there seems to be this annoying inability to create a sound that requires a quick pitch mod envelope on it such as a synth kick or tom and expecting it to play back correctly when other parts are being used.

the sound kind of trips out on you, if the mod amount is too large you get this very odd squeak sound and if you turn the mod amount down you will notice that the sound has still caved in other places, the kick or tom just totally loses its integrity and becomes a kind of disgusting cheap version of what it becomes shortly after muting any additional parts and going monotimbral, which is a fair sounding synth kick or tom, this is very frustrating as i often embark on "synth only" writing to get back to basics with my gear and electronic music as a whole and i expect m virus TI to perform well in this area. I always dreamed of using my snow as a kind of 4 track synth drum module but this dream was quickly lost after i received it 5 years ago.


so i have two questions.


is this an unwanted feature of the Virus TI snow (perhaps due to lower DSP power) or is it something the Entire TI line has, maybe even all access synths?

this brings me to a second question which is related only a a possible solution, and that is the use of program change to perhaps use one part to play drums by maybe switching between 3-4 patches very quickly an musically too. I have seen this done before but i cant remember which synth was being used as it was ages ago. Is the virus capable of something like that and does anyone know how to do it in ableton live 9? i have never experimented with program changes in ableton live.

I predominantly use the Virus TI Snow with VC as its control surface is very limited and this is the only reasonable way to program the synth so i dont know if you can change program with VC?

thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

PS. i miss the old virus demos that i used to have as mp3's....i have the Virus Indigo B one but none of the others. i used to have a few and i guess its a longshot but was wondering if any of you could perhaps send them if you got 'em.

[evilgus]

Hi Toastie,

I've noticed a small amount of note-stealing on my Snow, but only when using four simultaneous patches in a multi, including one intensive patch, like a dubstep wobble, or similar. Are you willing to share your drum sounds, so I can test them on mine?

I also recently bought a used TI keyboard and haven't seen any note-stealing on that, yet, but haven't run more than about 6 simultaneous patches on it.

Also, on the topic of program changes, a few of us have complained about delays with changing patches/multis from a sequencer, on the Snow. In my case, I was trying to flip through different multis, to access more than 4 patches within a song, but couldn't get the change to occur when I wanted it. I first noticed this using GMS on the iPad, but still have to test it on Ableton. I still only have Live 8 Intro, but will probably upgrade to Live 9, soon.

Cheers,

EG

[evilgus]

Ok, yes, I see what you mean. I've just been "pressure testing" my TI (keyboard), over USB, from Ableton 8, and it really can't handle more than 6 channels without note-stealing. I created a new Live Set, mapped 10 MIDI channels to different patches in the TI, then started copying a simple MIDI pattern from track to track, until it started to note-steal. It started to crap out on track 7, and even on track 6, if there's any really busy/intensive patches in there.

Next step is to test the TI and Snow at the same time, see if I can squeeze out a few more tracks that way. If not, I'll go back to MIDI and use my Emu 0404 to drive them both. Latency will probably be worse, though.

Cheers,

EG

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by evilgus

Next step is to test the TI and Snow at the same time, see if I can squeeze out a few more tracks that way. If not, I'll go back to MIDI and use my Emu 0404 to drive them both. Latency will probably be worse, though.

Does this mean you get better results with regard to latency over USB than analog, or did I misunderstand?

[evilgus]

Originally Posted by MBTC

Does this mean you get better results with regard to latency over USB than analog, or did I misunderstand?

Sorry, no, I haven't observed that. I've only just started trying VC in Ableton, I've previously been using MIDI from GMS on iPad, with minimal latency. But GMS is very limited, as far as automation and sound processing goes. Also wanted to see if I get the same issues that everyone else has found with USB, basically, Yes.

As far as Live goes, I did find some (more) latency with VC, but not too bad. Can play parts reasonably in time, but then need to shift all the notes back to the beat. My suspicion is that if I connect either TI via my Emu, to use MIDI, the latency will be slightly worse, as it's a fairly old unit. I could be totally wrong, of course, so will test that. Just trying to keep my setup as simple as possible, but still usable.

Cheers,

EG

[evilgus]

Ok, I did the same test on my Snow and it started to note-steal on 4 simultaneous patches, over USB from Live 8. If you throw in a nasty dubstep patch or complex arp, can even be on 3 patches.

EG