Winter NAMM 2014 gear (all manufacturers)

[Timo]

ROMplers usually refer specifically to samples, not presets, and you also mentioned fixed samples. This isn't the case.

What they mean by presets is the different virtual analogue oscillator waveforms available. The original 3o3 had two equivalent 'preset' oscillator waveforms: saw and square. The new TB-3 has 134 of them, including the original saw and square models. Others are more synthy/lead/fx. It would have been nice to have had oscillator modulation on the square (PWM) with other waveshaping, and LFOs, but guessing they wanted a direct 303 clone than your usual normal mono synth (which the System-1 would cover).

People say where's the Env and Decay knobs? These are controllable via the pressure sensitive touchpad.

I don't think there's anything you can do on the original 303 that you can't do with the new one, other than the CV/Gate, but there's MIDI for that. Everything is there... The cutoff, res, accent, env and decay (touchpad), oscillators (presets), tuning (touchpad), and significantly better pattern/sequencing.

Seems no less a synth than the original was. In fact the reverse is true. It's just in a different form to what us geeks are used to.

To me it doesn't matter if it's analogue or virtual analogue, Volca vs Aira, if it sounds good it is good, doesn't matter how you get there. As Tweak says, DSPs have come a long way since their early days. I do think a good hardware interface tied to a good VA model with a knob per function is worth more than just a soft-synth on a screen with menus and a mouse. It's the more direct, creative interaction you often need for exploring things that you would normally get bogged down with with a mouse.

I wasn't at all convinced about the new AIRA range until watching the live Dancefair stream when it was unveiled. The TR in particular looks like a huge heap of fun to use in realtime. Was far less impressed with the System-1, but that could be the demo guy using far too much nooby reverb.

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by Timo

ROMplers usually refer specifically to samples, not presets, and you also mentioned fixed samples. This isn't the case.

Perhaps to some, but ROM stands for read-only memory, and if you have a fixed Saw wave that cannot be skewed or the harmonic timbres changed, or a pulse wave where the pulse width cannot be widened, you effectively have a read-only waveform in memory, and it really does not matter if the way they are physically stored in memory is in a map of bits or series of static commands.

I do understand what you're saying but I'm calling a spade a spade on this one. A real synthesizer lets you modulate one oscillator with another and so forth.

These aren't real synths in my book and it's why Roland is scared to use the word oscillator in their specs.

[Timo]

ROMplers do usually mean a ROM audio sample based synth, rather than realtime synthesis of algorithms.

Originally Posted by MBTC

Perhaps to some, but ROM stands for read-only memory, and if you have a fixed Saw wave that cannot be skewed or the harmonic timbres changed, or a pulse wave where the pulse width cannot be widened, you effectively have a read-only waveform, and it really does not matter if the way they are physically stored in memory is in a map of bits or series of static commands.

By your definition the original 303 therefore had a read-only memory of 2 fixed presets. Saw and square. Was it any less a 'synth'?

A real synthesizer lets you modulate one oscillator with another and so forth.

Of course, but it's not trying to be a Virus/Nord/Waldorf, it's trying to be a 303.

[namnibor]

Like I said, it all about semantics.

meanwhile, check out this NAMM 2014 Waldorf Pulse 2 newly released contest video they have on-going. This is a REAL synth and I am enjoying the heck out of mine with Virus KC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwd9ccZHgaQ

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by Timo

ROMplers do usually mean a ROM audio sample based synth, rather than realtime synthesis of algorithms.

By your definition the original 303 therefore had a read-only memory of 2 fixed presets. Saw and square. Was it any less a 'synth'?

The whole thing that made the original TB-303 interesting was that it was never really meant to be a musical instrument, it was meant to be a little bleeps and blurps box, a little more than a metronome tick tock box, that you practiced real music against in the absence of any sort of real bassline solution. What made it legendary was the fact that there was nothing else like it available at the time, so many people took it and repurposed it in ways Roland never intended. The original TB-303 did not face the likes of soft synth solutions that do much more for pennies.

So yes, adjusted for modern technological progress, in today's terms, I would say that the original 303 was a zit on the ass of the lowest end of todays soft synths, and that makes it all the less acceptable to release something like this with all the hype and ask several hundred dollars for it in todays market.

But, they say the thing sounds pretty good so if someone really needs a standalone bass line unit like this and is willing to pay that, then so be it. If someone wants one they should ignore my opinions.

By the way I learned something from your post that I didn't know. I thought the TB-303 let you tune between saw and square, achieving infinite ground between the two kind of like the Leipzig-S or other real analogs, I didn't realize it was an all or none switch between saw and square. I didn't realize until I looked up an image that they did that. Weird but kind of makes sense on how they were positioning the device back then.

[Berni]

I think the point everyone is missing is...do we really need another 808, 909, 303 etc. Fricken bored of that shit years ago. Only crustys making psy trance might still find it interesting in the same way the old one note bass line never gets boring to them Thats what too much acid does to ya!

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by Berni

I think the point everyone is missing is...do we really need another 808, 909, 303 etc. Fricken bored of that shit years ago. Only crustys making psy trance might still find it interesting in the same way the old one note bass line never gets boring to them Thats what too much acid does to ya!

I personally don't have a lot of use for that acid sound, but some folks do apparently, because of the going rate for an authentic TB-303 and the number of clones that have popped up. This is why I don't really blame Roland at all for releasing a TB-303 remake, I just think in today's market it's not worth what they are asking for it. Maybe if the price came down more I'd be interested in it just as an inspirational tech toy kind of gadget, which is really what the original TB-303 was meant to be (a toy). It's just that for those of us who work in a DAW (most of us?) the pattern/groove/bassline options are just way past this, and my own needs don't really dictate a standalone box, and if they did I'll be honest I think FLStudio Mobile on my iPad probably does a lot more than this thing.

[Berni]

Yeah I think if thats the sound I was going for I'd spend $15 on this for my iPad. Spent many a happy hour on the original program Acieeeeed!

http://www.rebirthapp.com/

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by Berni

Yeah I think if thats the sound I was going for I'd spend $15 on this for my iPad. Spent many a happy hour on the original program Acieeeeed!

http://www.rebirthapp.com/

The basic concept of highly tweaked sequence patterns isn't too different from the enjoyment I get out of the 8-step sequencer of the Leipzig-S -- the whole process can be a lot of fun, and maybe being able to independently control each (true analog) oscillator's pitch as part of the step, as well as the VCF is part of what's spoiling me. Then again with analog you give up some things, too, like not being able to store patches... lol. Maybe that's one reason nobody wants to do real analog anymore, the modern crop of musicians wasn't around to see all of the creature comforts that are foregone with real analog... Just simple things like being able to load a project into the DAW and be able to recall all patches -- that was the real watershed feature that sold me on software as the future, because its that important to music making. With real analog you gotta sample it if you like it, otherwise you'll never hear the same noise twice.

[TweakHead]

@berni

so you think only people who have clearly took to much acid are into the acid sound? that's not just some huge generalization, that's even stupid... just saying. there's a lot of genres you're more fond of that have an acid sub genre in there, or no?

and it's not just one note bass, it's being able to play it for 30k crowds with big PA systems and the thing sounding stellar. give it a try one day, you'll see it takes more then a load of acid or two

another thing. the simple sound of 808 or 909 may have been abused, yes. but take a look around, there's this samples after they've been on a SP 1200, an MPC 60 (for the grit of the Analogue to Digital convertion alone), all sorts of analogue equipment, plus, you really need to layer them with others, still being used in almost any genre I can think of in EDM.

303? it even makes it to pop music sometimes and it doesn't sound much like psytrance to me, it's just the classic rave sound of the toy that feels almost like a quote these days... yeah, house guys do it because they abuse coke then, no? and pop maybe a cocktail of LA chicks and more coke and weed? what do you like best I wonder?

303 is a classic, those xoxboxes sell very very well. it's used even on Berlin school kind of music, there's even euro rack modules that can give you that filter, that exact kind of sequencer with the accent and all of that, so it's not nearly gone, no, it's just changing colours, getting mixed with other unpredictable contexts, just like the original. and do yourself a favour and turn one on and give it a try connected to some cool sound system one day and let me know about it! that sound is that sound, no wonder it's made it big when even the developers thought it was just some toy, it was the sound, not the looks, or the interface, all based on the sound. same thing with the TR drum sounds, many people will stop scanning a pack of samples when they get near a 909 kind of snare "yeah, this one", just because it's cultural, you've based your taste on many genres around this kind of sounds.

what's boring is Roland's take on their own legacy, but don't piss on the legacy itself, let alone with some generalizations, kind of offensive really, about psytrance and associating it with drugs or brain damage. your taste is your taste, just don't think it's science and it will all be fine, ok?