USB audio Virus Ti

[Mark28]

Does the USB audio of the TI only support 16 bit depth? ( 44hz/48hz at 16 bit that is )

[MonkeyMan]

http://www.sunesha.nu/virusforum/viewtopic.php?p=50145&highlight=#50145

[Mark28]

When can we expect USB support for higher bit resolutions? 8O

I mean mixing sounds at 24 bit is better and remains better after the final conversion to 16 bit. Those 8 extra bits can really help control that noise floor and get accurate level adjustments.

[MonkeyMan]

Don't hold your breath pal... probably on the TIT (TI two that is)

Ditch the USB/Audio at 16bit and use the 24bit 192Khz D/A converted stereo outs, you won't look back.

[Timo]

Why don't they let the communication between Virus Remote and the hardware Virus TI synth takes place via a USB 2.0 instead of USB 1.1 connection. USB 2.0 operates at 480Mbps, about 40X times faster than USB 1.1.

Apparently the implementation of USB v1 is a lot simpler, and the tools for that standard are more widely available/accessible to developers.

USB v2 resources and documentation are supposedly more thinner on the ground and more complex to implement, which is why you tend to see more Firewire soundcards than USB 2. USB v2 is starting to pick up now it's becoming more understood and that better pre-composited drivers are written and becoming more accessible.

Which begs the question why they didn't choose Firewire.

... We can can only guess they reserved it for TI v2.

[Mark28]

Why don't they let the communication between Virus Remote and the hardware Virus TI synth take place via USB 2.0 connection instead of the USB 1.1 connection ( USB 2.0 operates at 480Mbps, about 40X times faster than USB 1.1 ). 24bit at 96khz only takes up about 4.39 Mbps :wink:

[Timo]

umm, did u just delete and re-post your post? cus i posted my post after you posted your last USB v2 one, lol

[edit]ahh, u must have, cus i quoted u in my post :lol:

[nutekk]

while the audio that streams over the usb connection is 16 bit
you can still have your project setup in your host to a different bit depth..i guess the virus control software converts on the fly?

you wont get any added resolution on your TI parts...but at least the rest of the project(vsti,effects,mixing...) can be @ a higher rate.

if you use the ti as your sound card as well are you limited to 16bit 44/48?

the analog outs are 24/192....however the synth engine isn't running at that resolution....therefor it doesn't matter what the d/a is spec @. the d/a is locked to the synth engine...which is running @ 20bit???

[dr. orange]

because USB1 is much cheaper than USB2 and Firewire... I wonder if it was still cheaper to access in the end because it has caused tons of problems and so tons of development costs

[Tiphares]

Hello!
I can't understand why everybody is talking about TI 2, TI V2 or TI Mk2...
How do you all know there will be such a synth in the near future? I didn't ever read anything about it. BTW, I dont believe that Access will work on a new Synth and just say to all of us who bought a normal TI: "Sorry, but you've just bought a beta version! You helped us developing the TI 2!" We have to remember that the TI is just a few months on the market and access have to improve the system drastically.
And if we look at the Virus A/B/C, there was never such a Mk2 Version, exept of the Virus Classic, wich isch a cheaper but not less powerful virus b.
Please post any information about TI V2, if there are any. Otherwise, i suppose all the talking is just a big rumour...
Cheers, Thiphares

[marc]

while the audio that streams over the usb connection is 16 bit
you can still have your project setup in your host to a different bit depth..i guess the virus control software converts on the fly?

you wont get any added resolution on your TI parts...but at least the rest of the project(vsti,effects,mixing...) can be @ a higher rate.

exactly, you can use the TI in a 24bit/96k project if you like. the system is designed to work with any feasible sampling rate or bit depth.

marc

[Khazul]

Why don't they let the communication between Virus Remote and the hardware Virus TI synth takes place via a USB 2.0 instead of USB 1.1 connection. USB 2.0 operates at 480Mbps, about 40X times faster than USB 1.1.

Apparently the implementation of USB v1 is a lot simpler, and the tools for that standard are more widely available/accessible to developers.

USB v2 resources and documentation are supposedly more thinner on the ground and more complex to implement, which is why you tend to see more Firewire soundcards than USB 2. USB v2 is starting to pick up now it's becoming more understood and that better pre-composited drivers are written and becoming more accessible.


There also apparently the issue the USB2 had no provision for bandwidth reservation for audio - probably explains why most (if not all) USB2 audio cards seem to be glitchy as hell unless the chain is perfect.

USB1 does ahve this - so while alot slower and very limited can be a hell of alot more reliable.

Of course for multi channel audio - firewire is really the way to go I think. Reserved bandwidth channels.

Maybe thats really complex to implement. Anyway - everyone seems to be jumping on the USB audio (roland, korg etc) bandwagon now - I can soon see a time very soon when its going to become utterly crippling have more than one or two synths with this kind of integration via USB.

Bottom line - PLEASE remember us users who have a perfectly good reliable multi channel high bandwidth midi and audio interfaces allready - I really dont want millions of little midi and audio interfaces - it messes up PCs and causes huge overheads on both PCs and Macs. (10 device limit for old driver model)

I just want the usb to act as a private control and patch exchange channel nothing else - roland half got this right with the V-Synth (you can at least upload samples while the synth uses regular midi, but cant have both hardware and usb midi - grrrr) - Yamaha sadly messed up with the Motif ES (cant have both hardware midi and usb midi, but at least got the studio connection sofware to work over either) and Novation got it right with the remote series (midi and USB allways available).

On the TI - this translates in option to disable all USB audio paths, allow VC to do its excellent job of controlling the TI *BUT ALSO* enable the hardware midi ports as synth and NOT computer ports, and loose the delay compensation (which I can switch of in Cubase SX). OK - so I know theree is the clock source issue - simple - only accept clock from one source or the other, not both, but allow other midi from anywhere simultaneously :)

I wonder what the Radias and SH-201 are like in this respect - whether they are full USB audio plugins, or whether you can just use it as a editor, patch manager and aurtomation labeller and leave the thing working on regular MIDI and analog audio for notes in/out and audio in/out?


Which begs the question why they didn't choose Firewire.

... We can can only guess they reserved it for TI v2.

People tend to have one or two firewire ports and loads of USB ports. Firewire is however chainable (unlike USB) as its a bus system, not a point to point system (as USB is). I think good firewire controllers are alot more expensive as well and probably not many people doing off the shelf implementations of the drivers - so *far* higher risk to implement.

Learning to write reliable drivers for computers is not a trivial task - alot of audio hardware companies are slowly finding this out with the flood of completely useless drivers around at the moment - at least Access had the good sense to buy in a known working driver set as far as I can tell (probably also why we have USB1 rather than 2 or firewire - probably the main).

[aisling]

Why don't they let the communication between Virus Remote and the hardware Virus TI synth takes place via a USB 2.0 instead of USB 1.1 connection. USB 2.0 operates at 480Mbps, about 40X times faster than USB 1.1.

Apparently the implementation of USB v1 is a lot simpler, and the tools for that standard are more widely available/accessible to developers.

USB v2 resources and documentation are supposedly more thinner on the ground and more complex to implement, which is why you tend to see more Firewire soundcards than USB 2. USB v2 is starting to pick up now it's becoming more understood and that better pre-composited drivers are written and becoming more accessible.


There also apparently the issue the USB2 had no provision for bandwidth reservation for audio - probably explains why most (if not all) USB2 audio cards seem to be glitchy as hell unless the chain is perfect.

USB1 does ahve this - so while alot slower and very limited can be a hell of alot more reliable.

Of course for multi channel audio - firewire is really the way to go I think. Reserved bandwidth channels.

Maybe thats really complex to implement. Anyway - everyone seems to be jumping on the USB audio (roland, korg etc) bandwagon now - I can soon see a time very soon when its going to become utterly crippling have more than one or two synths with this kind of integration via USB.

Bottom line - PLEASE remember us users who have a perfectly good reliable multi channel high bandwidth midi and audio interfaces allready - I really dont want millions of little midi and audio interfaces - it messes up PCs and causes huge overheads on both PCs and Macs. (10 device limit for old driver model)

I just want the usb to act as a private control and patch exchange channel nothing else - roland half got this right with the V-Synth (you can at least upload samples while the synth uses regular midi, but cant have both hardware and usb midi - grrrr) - Yamaha sadly messed up with the Motif ES (cant have both hardware midi and usb midi, but at least got the studio connection sofware to work over either) and Novation got it right with the remote series (midi and USB allways available).

On the TI - this translates in option to disable all USB audio paths, allow VC to do its excellent job of controlling the TI *BUT ALSO* enable the hardware midi ports as synth and NOT computer ports, and loose the delay compensation (which I can switch of in Cubase SX). OK - so I know theree is the clock source issue - simple - only accept clock from one source or the other, not both, but allow other midi from anywhere simultaneously :)

I wonder what the Radias and SH-201 are like in this respect - whether they are full USB audio plugins, or whether you can just use it as a editor, patch manager and aurtomation labeller and leave the thing working on regular MIDI and analog audio for notes in/out and audio in/out?


Which begs the question why they didn't choose Firewire.

... We can can only guess they reserved it for TI v2.

People tend to have one or two firewire ports and loads of USB ports. Firewire is however chainable (unlike USB) as its a bus system, not a point to point system (as USB is). I think good firewire controllers are alot more expensive as well and probably not many people doing off the shelf implementations of the drivers - so *far* higher risk to implement.

Learning to write reliable drivers for computers is not a trivial task - alot of audio hardware companies are slowly finding this out with the flood of completely useless drivers around at the moment - at least Access had the good sense to buy in a known working driver set as far as I can tell (probably also why we have USB1 rather than 2 or firewire - probably the main).

Khazul-

I appreciate and respect all your knowledge, you have taught me a thing or two.

[tvpnyc]

if i use the USB connection (w/ VC) i'm only getting 16bit "outs"... yet if i use the L/R audio outs i get 24bit output? is it possible to use the usb connectoin for midi/VC and the L/R outs for audio!? no!?

[muziksculp]

if i use the USB connection (w/ VC) i'm only getting 16bit "outs"... yet if i use the L/R audio outs i get 24bit output? is it possible to use the usb connectoin for midi/VC and the L/R outs for audio!? no!?

This is exactly what I would like to do at this point (Use the Analog Outs instead of the USB audio), but have the VC and Midi Available to edit and trigger the TI via USB. (Is this possible ? Now ? or in the future ?)

The TI's sounds so much better when using the analog outputs, the audio stream coming through the USB out sounds more metallic, kind of the ugly digital type, it lacks the smoothness, richness, and warmth of the analog outs.

Why did Access do this ? why isn't USB audio 24 bit ? I think this is a big compromise on sound quality, which is priority #1 at the price paid for the TI, plus it is suposed to be able to emulate the analog sound, but with digital sound at 16 bit I find it more digital in character.

If I could use the VC and still have the TI output sound via it's analog outs, I would do it.

Still debating wheather to continue using the TI with VC via USB, or use it just like an older virus C,B,.. via analog.