virus c vs snow ?

[marc]

arndt,

i won't attempt to change your opinion on total integration even though it kind of saddens me when people state it doesn't work even though it does for the most of us.

you say that the TI range is overpriced. well, if you compare the TI to a second hand model you might get this impression but since the TI essentially costs the same like the C did (when you remove compensation for inflation and currency exchange) i don't understand where you're coming from.

i have my own opinion on what i would get but since i'm working for Access i leave you guys to this discussion. all i can say is that i'm personally tired of the sound of pure Virtual Analogue so i spend much more time using the new oscillators in the Snow than the old ones.

best, marc

[AlexHall74]

Originally Posted by marc

arndt,

i won't attempt to change your opinion on total integration even though it kind of saddens me when people state it doesn't work even though it does for the most of us.

you say that the TI range is overpriced. well, if you compare the TI to a second hand model you might get this impression but since the TI essentially costs the same like the C did (when you remove compensation for inflation and currency exchange) i don't understand where you're coming from.

i have my own opinion on what i would get but since i'm working for Access i leave you guys to this discussion. all i can say is that i'm personally tired of the sound of pure Virtual Analogue so i spend much more time using the new oscillators in the Snow than the old ones.

best, marc

Hey Marc,

Adjusting for inflation and currency exchange when doing synth price comparisons is certainly a sound thing to consider doing, especially considering the U.S. dollar's poor performane in the past few years. Dollar for dollar a Virus gives you more functionality and better sound than any synth I have ever played, hands down.

There is also one BIG risk in buying used: The synth stops working shortly after you buy it. This happened to our own Digital Screams after buying a DX7 mkii a year or so ago, at a pretty penny too if I remember correctly.

Also, it is important to be able to differentiate when something does not work, VS, when it is a new piece of gear that the owner does not know how to work yet. Frustration is quick to manifest, and patience slow to prevail.

[Arndt]

I'm sorry, Marc, I didn't want to hurt anybody's feeling about the Virus generally and especially the TI or Snow, which are without any doubt excellent instruments. But when I look at the pricetags, I do that in an absolute rather than relative way. About 1,7K Euros for the TI Desktop and more than 1K for the Snow is a lot of money for me to spend for a synthesizer, although I'm living in Germany, the country where these instruments are produced. People in US and other countries with somewhat weak currencies (against Euro) are having an even harder time to decide to get one.

So, when I'm considering an instrument, I have to take a good look at it, compare it to alternatives, and decide at the end, which one delivers the most 'bang for the buck'. Then I have to compare it to what my bank account delivers. Everybody knows that, everybody does it this way, except for those running a multimillion $ studio in LA, where some thousands more or less are nothing.

Apart from the money, in my ears, there's isn't that big difference between the TI range and the older C or B model soundwise, in my opinion. So I just couldn't justify to pay that much for a TI or Snow at the moment. Also, the B/C-engine works very well for me, so no need for TI right now.

Regarding 'Total Integration' it's just my experience and the fact, that a lot of people are complaining about it. And yes, I know, that, on the other hand, all those thousands of satisfied TI- and Snow users don't make a buzz usually.

But let me tell you this: I've been testing the Snow and the TI Desktop (both connected to a Polar and a PC) at a very big store here in Germany. The guy in the shop told me, that they had continueing trouble to get things to work with Virus Control and a DAW, and actually it took quite a while to set things up. Then, when I played, some strange sounds occured from time to time when switching between presets and sometimes when just playing a preset. Then, shortly before I was through with my test run, the Polar produced something that I would call 'MIDI salad'. It wasn't possible anymore to just play single notes or chords, the Polar instead decided to play lots of chaotic notes of it's own gusto - we had to switch it off and on again to stop that frightening cacophony. It was already disconnected from the PC then and just MIDIed to the Snow.

So, as I said, it's just what I've heard and what I've seen, and at the moment it's just too much money for the possibillity to get some technical trouble with the unit. But for sure most of the units work allright, and for me the TI range will be worth to be considered again, and I will keep an eye on it, because these instruments are very special and inspiring. At the moment I'm very happy with my Virus B - until my next acute GAS attack

Best Regards to all
Arndt

[marc]

Originally Posted by Arndt

But let me tell you this: I've been testing the Snow and the TI Desktop (both connected to a Polar and a PC) at a very big store here in Germany. The guy in the shop told me, that they had continueing trouble to get things to work with Virus Control and a DAW, and actually it took quite a while to set things up. Then, when I played, some strange sounds occured from time to time when switching between presets and sometimes when just playing a preset. Then, shortly before I was through with my test run, the Polar produced something that I would call 'MIDI salad'. It wasn't possible anymore to just play single notes or chords, the Polar instead decided to play lots of chaotic notes of it's own gusto - we had to switch it off and on again to stop that frightening cacophony. It was already disconnected from the PC then and just MIDIed to the Snow.

hi arndt,

do you really think we would ship a product which still has those basic problems after so many software maintenance and feature updates? i don't want to say that our software has no bugs. it certainly has, it is software after all... but i think if those basic things would not work we wouldn't be in business anymore - it least not in the business of Total Integration.

let us know which store it is, i'll send somebody by to fix their installation. this type of bad advertisement is counterproductive for everybody.

best, marc

[Doc Jones]

just read this thread and i have to agree with Marc. I have had a TI since the very early days (mine was a preorder) and yeah there were indeed some problems with it initially - some serious. But i can say without hesitation that this this is rock solid now and has been for quite some time.

[AlexHall74]

marc wrote:

"let us know which store it is, i'll send somebody by to fix their installation. this type of bad advertisement is counterproductive for everybody.

best, marc"

Now that's a great example of Access's awesome technical support, no doubt the best in the industry! Who else has added new functionality (Thank you for the Moog filters!) to discontinued product lines other than Access? I can't think of another manufacturer that has.

I've asked about a dozen questions of the Access technical support staff over the past 4 years and always been given a useful/accurate answer in a reasonable amount of time, usually a day or so (I'm in EST time zone, whcih is GMT +7 Hrs. I think).

Yamaha's tech support is also good, but not nearly as fast as Access, in my own experience, probably twice as many questions to them (half of them pre-sales, half "actual" technical support) and the average turn around time is 3-4 days for them, maybe longer.

Although I love Mackie products to death, their e-mail tech support is non-existent. But, if you call and navigate through their AVRS then you do get a helpful, live person, which I appreciate in its own right.

Clavia's tech support is very lacking in my recent experience. No returns on e-mail, and I did not receive a reply from their forum when I tried to register to ask a few questions about my recently purchased NL2. Maybe they respond to their NordWave customers, who knows. BTW, The forums at electromusic.com are AWESOME (thank you Wout and Blue Hell!) and if you ever buy a Clavia product then definitely go there.

THANK YOU ACCESS TECH SUPPORT!!!

[myfilthyheart]

being new to synths, and in the market for a virus... im curious which would better suit me. a C desktop, or a snow. im a pretty big fan of this TI business.... from what ive seen (my obsession with software runs deep)... but the lack of knobs on the snow worries me..,, i think, being new, id be better off with more knobs... does the TI aspect make up for the lack of on-board knobs and buttons? or would the C be better? obviously the TI desktop would be my best bet but... its a little over my budget

basically my main concern is which one would be easier to use overall..

[Arndt]

Hi Marc,
on Saturday I was there at the store again to get some Guitar gear, I'm Guitarist mainly. Regarding to this discussion I took some ten minutes to check the Virus setup again, and this time I didn't experienced any problems (except for occasional very short noises from unknown source). I asked the same guy as before, and he told me, that they successfully exchanged the MIDI-hub and cables, they used earlier. I was wondering, how the MIDI setup could produce such specific problems, but obviously it disappeared then. Maybe the fact, that some other gear had been connected to the hub before may have caused conflicts.

And yes, the Snow delivers some wonderful sound, although it is definitely too expensive for me at the moment. If I hadn't been able to get a Virus B in best condition, and if there wasn't a market for used Viruses generally, I probably would go for a new Virus rather than something else.

Regards
Arndt

[acc]

Hello all,

thanks for all your replies.
Now i have bought an Virus C.
My Question is now, what do i need all for using it on my Audiophile 2496.
from the virus to the audiophile, do i need there an amp. in the middle ?

Thanks in advantage

[Unknown Sound]

Originally Posted by Doc Jones

just read this thread and i have to agree with Marc. I have had a TI since the very early days (mine was a preorder) and yeah there were indeed some problems with it initially - some serious. But i can say without hesitation that this this is rock solid now and has been for quite some time.

Same here. the last production version (2.5.3) is stable as.

Also, I was an old-skool stand alone user of the TI. Finally I decided to give VC a go and now I won't look back. It's awesome!!!

=US.