Why a lot of modern electronic (and other genre) music sucks

[mitchiemasha]

I'll go on to add, if you hadn't even heard of him it kind of suggest you are actually suffering from old mans syndrome bringing up this debate. Rather than the actual point you are trying to mask it behind.

In 20 years from now the kids who grew up listening to Calvin Harris and had no interest in FWM arn't suddenly going to erase all their memories of the music they grew up with. It is that that will hold a place in their heart and have that uniqueness too not FWM. I am like you using FWM and Calvin as example to the point not actualities.

As for the Armin comment you made, then through away by mentioning how FWM could easily sit down and play any acoustic. WHO CARES about Acoustic ability. Give members of FWM an empty Virus, you think they'd be able to come up with the unique sounds that has graced our EDM scenes. There's hundreds, millions even of people who can sit and play. Playing ability means shit in the real world, it's the producers and the engineers who make them sound good.

Leave some of the best known bands in a studio with no hardcore engineer who'll sit their for hours crafting their sound and they will basically sound like shit.

Being a VIRUS forum i'm surprised to hear what you said.

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by mitchiemasha

I'll go on to add, if you hadn't even heard of him it kind of suggest you are actually suffering from old mans syndrome bringing up this debate. Rather than the actual point you are trying to mask it behind.

One could come to that conclusion if they are trying hard to.

Originally Posted by mitchiemasha

In 20 years from now the kids who grew up listening to Calvin Harris and had no interest in FWM arn't suddenly going to erase all their memories of the music they grew up with. It is that that will hold a place in their heart and have that uniqueness too not FWM. I am like you using FWM and Calvin as example to the point not actualities.

I believe understand the point you are trying to make. Even the kiddies of today probably have trouble imagining an era where people spend a months salary on a home stereo system to play vinyl. The kiddies of today have absolutely no mental concept of purchasing quality handmade shoes. They have grown up in an era where everything is mass produced cheaply and badly in China, just like most of the music they listen to is produced cheaply and badly. I do agree with your point here and would like to thank you for further validating my position.

Originally Posted by mitchiemasha

As for the Armin comment you made, then through away by mentioning how FWM could easily sit down and play any acoustic. WHO CARES about Acoustic ability.

No I clearly pointed out Armin is only a DJ and not in the same league as some of the musicians who have stood the test of time. Sorry you missed it.

Originally Posted by mitchiemasha

Give members of FWM an empty Virus, you think they'd be able to come up with the unique sounds that has graced our EDM scenes. There's hundreds, millions even of people who can sit and play. Playing ability means shit in the real world, it's the producers and the engineers who make them sound good.

Leave some of the best known bands in a studio with no hardcore engineer who'll sit their for hours crafting their sound and they will basically sound like shit.

Well this brings up a couple of other points. Do yourself a favor and watch a movie called "Sound City", about a specific music studio where so many of the albums that are considered some of the greatest music of all time were recorded. It's quite interesting even if you are unable to see how it helps support some of the ideas I've brought forth here.

I did say a couple of points. The second point is that Lindsey Buckingham was not only an amazing guitarist (decent but perhaps not great singer), but also a genius producer/mixer. He was both the musician and the master engineer, one of the reasons why Fleetwood Mac still sells albums and commands top dollar for tickets for sold out shows while the teeny bopper bubble gum pop stars command a fraction of the ticket value and can only pray that their career actually lasts as long.

So, how can anyone compare these modern artists with someone like Buckingham who not only directly contributed to the "engineering" aspect of Fleetwood Mac's success, but also played and wrote many of the tunes? How many of these producers that you feel are solely responsible for "good" sound can just walk out on a stage with a guitar and do this?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdd_fv0xrSo

Originally Posted by mitchiemasha

Being a VIRUS forum i'm surprised to hear what you said.

Actually I think in terms of electronic music, one of the great pivotal eras was right around the time the Virus hit the market. It put powerful VA in the hands of true synth gear heads, and it would be many years before cheaper and more easily available softsynths would fall into the hands of the masses, resulting in a flood of horrible electronic music. So in that sense it's quite an appropriate discussion for a Virus forum I think, even if most of my points are being embarrassingly overlooked.

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by MBTC

So, how can anyone compare these modern artists with someone like Buckingham who not only directly contributed to the "engineering" aspect of Fleetwood Mac's success, but also played and wrote many of the tunes? How many of these producers that you feel are solely responsible for "good" sound can just walk out on a stage with a guitar and do this?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdd_fv0xrSo

Ok, sort of on-topic, I watched this video about 4 times after I posted that (which was the first time I had searched for it in years). One of the things that makes Lindsey Buckingham great was that his playing style was so recognizable, that even if he was playing a song you had never heard before, you would probably recognize the sound and say "that sounds like Buckingham", yet simultaneously no two tracks ever sounded too similar (as they often do from today's popular stars). In terms of his playing style, since he almost never used a guitar pick and played with his bare fingers, it seems you need to have the exact same fingerprints hitting the strings of a guitar that was tuned with the exact same wrists to truly achieve or imitate the Buckingham sound.

There are certain musical elements that are just not reproducible by an imposter, and his playing style is one of them. That is the pinnacle of what an artist should be -- original and creative.

Electronic dance music and modern pop will probably never be able compare to this, because given a certain combination of MIDI, samples (if we allow that cheat factor in at all), and synth parameters, technically anything electronic is reproducible. I'm as much a synth head as anyone reading this, but I know when to pay respect to the masters versus identifying those with delusions of grandeur. I never intended this thread to be about Fleetwood Mac, and maybe I will morph it into discussions of other bands as needed over time, but when I watch the talent of people like Buckingham, I'm just fucking humbled.

If you've never seen him describe some of the mixing and audio engineering techniques he used on some of the old Fleetwood Mac LPs, it is an amazing journey into the history of audio production, and somewhat staggering/ humbling to gain insight into the level of talent it takes to achieve record sales that keep on going 30 or 40 years later, even when those came after struggle to sell a single crappy MP3 on iTunes or whatever.

It's amazing that after all these decades, Fleetwood Mac's record sales still stay on the charts. There's a reason for that. Do you really think anyone will be talking about Katy Perry or Justin Bieber in 30 years, much less remember who they are, or buying their recordings?

What's worse, do you think the current generation of musical noobs even cares that anyone would recognize their work in 30 years? Many of them will change their own music genre as fast as many change underwear in order to sell records, stay in the limelight, and be able to continue to feed their addiction for attention. That's why they are there, they want attention, to be loved by the public (and if they can't be loved, they will take negative attention as a supplement). Longevity is not even a thought in their mind, they care about right now and today.

Screw actual musicianship, it's not needed with computers right? Screw using your brain when you can Google something and look it up later. Screw learning something from someone more knowledgeable on a topic when you can just be a douche and argue it because you're bored and need some sport in your life. Why bother?