question about MULTI SAVE MODE on KC

[pressure]

I am trying to figure out how to save multi's in the KC. Now, the manual says


To belabor the point, when you store a
MULTI program, only the content of the MULTI
edit buffer is saved, not however the sound pro-
grams in the PARTs. These must be stored indi-
vidually in MULTI SINGLE mode.


say I have it set to MULTI SINGLE MODE, by pressing both buttons, I go hit store, do I have to save EACH sound?

On my supernova II, I could save the entire multi to a place where it would save all 8 sounds of the supernovaII used for that multi. I could name the multi in the SNII, and when I saved the multi, it saved each sound already.

how is this done on the KC?

[Onkel Dunkel]

I´m not sure i understand the question but i will try to explain the difference between saving a single and a multi:

When you press store in single or multisingle mode you save the patch (and only the patch) you have selected. All sound details for the single sound is stored in a single, nothing more.

If you press store in multi mode you save a multi program. A multi program consists only of information of which patches are used on the 16 parts, which MIDI channel each part is using and what reverb/delay setings they have. A multi program does not contain any sound information.

So what does this mean:
Say you have selected 8 single patches for a multi. None of the sounds are changed so all you need to do is saving the multi. On the other hand if you are working on a multi and have created/changed 8 single patches you will have to save all the singles AND the multi. If you later change one of the single pathes used in one multi you will also have changed the sound in the multi...

I hope this makes sense

[pressure]

Originally Posted by Onkel Dunkel

I«m not sure i understand the question but i will try to explain the difference between saving a single and a multi:

When you press store in single or multisingle mode you save the patch (and only the patch) you have selected. All sound details for the single sound is stored in a single, nothing more.

If you press store in multi mode you save a multi program. A multi program consists only of information of which patches are used on the 16 parts, which MIDI channel each part is using and what reverb/delay setings they have. A multi program does not contain any sound information.

So what does this mean:
Say you have selected 8 single patches for a multi. None of the sounds are changed so all you need to do is saving the multi. On the other hand if you are working on a multi and have created/changed 8 single patches you will have to save all the singles AND the multi. If you later change one of the single pathes used in one multi you will also have changed the sound in the multi...

I hope this makes sense

Yes and no.

on my supernova II I could save the multi program as one.

so your saying, if I tweak anything, I need to MANUALLY save each sound, AND also the multi? Why cant I just save the multi, and by saving the multi saves the tweaked sounds for that multi?

also, I found that it KC virus saved itself when I did not want it to, while in multi mode. Even when I shut the power off and turned it back on, it still had the settings that I never saved...

[Onkel Dunkel]

Originally Posted by pressure

so your saying, if I tweak anything, I need to MANUALLY save each sound, AND also the multi? Why cant I just save the multi, and by saving the multi saves the tweaked sounds for that multi?

Yes you have to save each sound. Don´t know why but this is the way the multis work on the Virus...

Originally Posted by pressure

also, I found that it KC virus saved itself when I did not want it to, while in multi mode. Even when I shut the power off and turned it back on, it still had the settings that I never saved...

Whenever you edit somthing it is moved to a edit buffer. This goes for both single and multi programs. So when you tweak something you are actually looking at the edit buffer and not the "real" patch or multi program. If you chose another patch or multi without saving the program will return to before you tweaked it. So if you presse patch select up and then down you are back to starting point...

[pressure]

Originally Posted by Onkel Dunkel

Yes you have to save each sound. Don«t know why but this is the way the multis work on the Virus...



Whenever you edit somthing it is moved to a edit buffer. This goes for both single and multi programs. So when you tweak something you are actually looking at the edit buffer and not the "real" patch or multi program. If you chose another patch or multi without saving the program will return to before you tweaked it. So if you presse patch select up and then down you are back to starting point...

yes, but if thats the case, why did my multi program permenently save, when I never hit save? I never hit the SOTRE button, yet my appregiator patter I was using changed, and when I went and changed the multi and go back, it still was the same....

how I save my multi, hit multi, store, name it, and then save. Still dont understand why my app did not revert to the settings before.

[Onkel Dunkel]

The arp. pattern is not saved in the multi but in the single program. The only thing saved in the multi is which singles is used in each part, the delay/reverb settings, the MIDI channel used in each part, the keyrange for each part, the volume and pan of each part, the output assigned for each part, detune and transpose for each part, and maybe some settings i forgot. All sound information (except the global delay/reverb setting) is saved in the single program. You should read the part "all about the memory" (page 47), "multi mode parameters" (page 110) and "the virus and sequensers" (page 140) in the manual (and read the rest of the manual too ). I can´t explain what happened in your case...

[pressure]

Originally Posted by Onkel Dunkel

The arp. pattern is not saved in the multi but in the single program. The only thing saved in the multi is which singles is used in each part, the delay/reverb settings, the MIDI channel used in each part, the keyrange for each part, the volume and pan of each part, the output assigned for each part, detune and transpose for each part, and maybe some settings i forgot. All sound information (except the global delay/reverb setting) is saved in the single program. You should read the part "all about the memory" (page 47), "multi mode parameters" (page 110) and "the virus and sequensers" (page 140) in the manual (and read the rest of the manual too ). I canÇt explain what happened in your case...

well, it seems to me the KC virus, (or maybe all virus products) are not very user friendly.

so the steps to save a multi is more then just STORE, RENAME, and save? The KC virus is more time consuming and can confuse someone such as my self, who has used the extremely user friendly super nova II synth for years.

I am reading the manual, but its not making any sense. Or rather, I am confused on weather I should sell the virus, because it only has 1 delay for all 16 parts,

and to save, you need to save the multi (17 times) 1 for each 16 part, and one for the multi, correct? If this is the case, I feel the virus is crippled and I can not work like this....

I imported some new sounds in the virus, which I think its great, but now when I save, I see "MULTI Stored but take notice, there are some edited singles."

I dont know what this means, all I am trying to do is save my multi, can you explain the exact steps, because I dont understand the virus messages.

[ledge]

The multi only saves what patches are in the multi. So if you have a multi saved and edit one of the patches in it, you then only have to save that patch as a single and you don't need to re-save the multi.

The only things other than the patch numbers that are saved are the midi channel for each patch and the reverb/delay settings as you can't have different reverb/delay settings for multiple patches on the Virus C, if you want that get a Virus TI.

[Onkel Dunkel]

Originally Posted by pressure

well, it seems to me the KC virus, (or maybe all virus products) are not very user friendly.

I have no problems with it but i guess it´s a matter of taste and getting used to working with it...

so the steps to save a multi is more then just STORE, RENAME, and save?

No that´s about it but only for the multi program.

I am reading the manual, but its not making any sense. Or rather, I am confused on weather I should sell the virus, because it only has 1 delay for all 16 parts,

Yes that a downer. The Virus TI doesn´t suffer from this problem...

and to save, you need to save the multi (17 times) 1 for each 16 part, and one for the multi, correct? If this is the case, I feel the virus is crippled and I can not work like this....

Yes and no. If you choose patches that are already programmed and needs no tweaking the you only have to save the multi. The multi program contains information about which patch number are chosen for each part (ie. part 1 = A110 Robotvoice JM, part 2 = B019 Bounce JM, etc.). If you need to tweak a sound you have to save it as a single.
Example:
You want to change the resonance setting of part 2 which is patch A023. To save the setting you have to save the single program A023. You don´t have to save the multi again since it already knows that part 2 is patch A023 (you saved this earlier when you saved the multi program).

I imported some new sounds in the virus, which I think its great, but now when I save, I see "MULTI Stored but take notice, there are some edited singles."

I dont know what this means, all I am trying to do is save my multi, can you explain the exact steps, because I dont understand the virus messages.

This means excatly what is says. You loaded new data into the single patch memory so you have to save the singles that has changed. You don´t have to save the multi to save the sounds. Just the single you have altered/loaded a new patch to. You only have to save the multi when you changed a parameter in the multi program just as you only have to save the single if you changed data in the single.

The way i usually work is in multisingle mode. I choose or program my sounds for the individual parts in multisingle mode. When i´m done tweaking/programming a patch i save it as a single program. When i´m done selecting patches for the parts in the multi i go to multi mode and save the multi.

[pressure]

Originally Posted by Onkel Dunkel

I have no problems with it but i guess it«s a matter of taste and getting used to working with it...




No that«s about it but only for the multi program.



Yes that a downer. The Virus TI doesn«t suffer from this problem...



Yes and no. If you choose patches that are already programmed and needs no tweaking the you only have to save the multi. The multi program contains information about which patch number are chosen for each part (ie. part 1 = A110 Robotvoice JM, part 2 = B019 Bounce JM, etc.). If you need to tweak a sound you have to save it as a single.
Example:
You want to change the resonance setting of part 2 which is patch A023. To save the setting you have to save the single program A023. You don«t have to save the multi again since it already knows that part 2 is patch A023 (you saved this earlier when you saved the multi program).



This means excatly what is says. You loaded new data into the single patch memory so you have to save the singles that has changed. You don«t have to save the multi to save the sounds. Just the single you have altered/loaded a new patch to. You only have to save the multi when you changed a parameter in the multi program just as you only have to save the single if you changed data in the single.

The way i usually work is in multisingle mode. I choose or program my sounds for the individual parts in multisingle mode. When i«m done tweaking/programming a patch i save it as a single program. When i«m done selecting patches for the parts in the multi i go to multi mode and save the multi.

well I just started a hip hop track, found a sound, tweaked it, saved the multi, but then when I changed from one to the other, I noticed the sound was there, but the sound was not tweaked!

Maybe its just me, but the supernova did not suffer from this, all I needed to do was save the "multi" and tweaked sounds were saved.

when you say the virus TI doesnt "suffer" from these things, is it the same way?

I love the sounds of the virus, but its user interface is confusing. I dont know how to save a single sound, if I am in multi mode. Single sounds saving is suppose to be for the single sound mode! Or at least thats how I learned. Keep in mind this is my second hardware synth.



the multi mode is suppose to save the tweaked sounds.

How much can I get for a KC virus 61 note keyboard? I cant find them on ebay, so I dont know what to ask for, or ask to much.