So I just bought a Virus TI

[The Illusive Man]

And I wasn't impressed at first sight, but after some hours of programming It got my pshyed up again.

But here's the thing.. I wanted to recreate a lead from a youtube video, in which the guy uses a VIRUS C. And I follow every step, but I just CAN'T get it to sound close..

And it starts from the beginning, the OSC's of the Virus TI sounds like a software vst compared to the Virus C. Or is it just my ears that decieve me ?

here is the video btw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIUlu...e=mfu_in_order

[Timo]

The TI and the C should sound the same.

But your ears aren't deceiving you. The guy who recorded it definately sounds like he placed a compressor or limiter afterwards. Either that or he recorded the sound externally using a camcorder (which has a compressor/limiter of its own to maximise the audio signal), or maybe using a mic with a separate pre-amp and compressor.

You can tell a compressor has been used, particularly at the end. - The compressor gives the audio punch and bite to the attack portions, while it pumps and sustains the reverb tails.

Welcome to the forum btw.

[The Illusive Man]

thanks for your welcome and reply

a compressor, so that means I can do the same (with software that is) ?

and how come the INIT OSC'S sound SO much better. His OSC's sound non comparable with mine Also a friend of mine who owned both the C and the TI told me that he liked the C way better, so I am confused.. since allot of people tell me that the TI is the same as the C but with extra voices etc.
In which he replied with : you can fool the eyes, but not the ears man!

[FSTZ]

you should also take into account the amount of audio fuckery that happens when you upload a video to youtube.

and welcome to the forum!

[The Illusive Man]

*thanks for your welcome!

But audio fuckery... isn't an excuse since the Difference isn't in the "quality". Its in the tonecolor, and I heard it in HQ also, and I could still hear this difference :P

I managed to get close... but still it misses warmth and attack. I read about the attack being a USB connection thing... I am now switched on an USB port (dont think its even USB2) so maybe it will sound phatter when switched to audio cables.

[FSTZ]

cool!

good luck

[Timo]

Originally Posted by The Illusive Man

thanks for your welcome and reply

a compressor, so that means I can do the same (with software that is) ?

Yep, you can do the same with software. Even the inbuilt "VstDynamics" plugin that is bundled with Cubase and Wavelab sounds ok for pumping audio a little bit.

A hardware compressor is good for live usage (if you want to hear the effect as you play) or you can use a software compressor for live usage if you have a good ASIO based soundcard for low-latency processing.

and how come the INIT OSC'S sound SO much better. His OSC's sound non comparable with mine

Turn your Virus up (or the youtube video down) in volume to match or slightly surpass the volume of the youtube vid. That should be the only difference.

Believe me, "volume" plays a large part in fooling the brain into thinking things sound 'better' when they're not. Psychoacoustics, a whole subject in itself.

Also start with the "- START -" patch on the Virus as it looks like he did on the video.

I can get my Indigo to sound identical to his early on. But the Virus C has more features than my Indigo so my end result doesn't sound as good.

Also a friend of mine who owned both the C and the TI told me that he liked the C way better, so I am confused.. since allot of people tell me that the TI is the same as the C but with extra voices etc.
In which he replied with : you can fool the eyes, but not the ears man!

I can't comment personally as I've never had the chance to play on a TI or TI|2. I have an old-skool Indigo (Virus B). But many have said the TI is quieter in volume when listened to via USB compared with the analogue audio outputs. The analogue audio outputs are supposedly louder, which might fool you into thinking it sounds 'better', but the actual sound should be the same, just quieter.

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by The Illusive Man

*thanks for your welcome!

But audio fuckery... isn't an excuse since the Difference isn't in the "quality". Its in the tonecolor, and I heard it in HQ also, and I could still hear this difference :P

I managed to get close... but still it misses warmth and attack. I read about the attack being a USB connection thing... I am now switched on an USB port (dont think its even USB2) so maybe it will sound phatter when switched to audio cables.

The attack characteristic that I believe you're referring to is often found in pluck and "dreamtrance" type sounds. I guess the difference between the two is how the cutoff opens up and maybe some harmonic differences (pluck will be very short with some delay and reverb, while dreamtrance tends to sustain longer or open wider on cutoff). I think plucks (at least the way I do them) might tend to have a thinner, single oscillator behind them and dreamtrance or other lead variations might have more unison/chorus/detuning of more osc's.

The key to the attack is a logarithmic cutoff filter attack (and of course resonance can be used to put the peak just in the right spot). I do not have a Virus at the moment so I can't say exactly how to achieve it, but I'm sure it can be done the question is just how to get there. By logarithmic I mean you want a line with very steep climbing vertically angled slope, that starts to lose it's momentum and tapers off toward a horizontal angle (something like the shape of a lower case letter "r" but not quite). The shape of that curve is critical I think. Now remember, you are going to combine that with a LP filter that is essentially also logarithmic but by definition it would tend to be a horizontal line that falls off into a downward vertical angled slope. Now between those two competing curves, you need to find the sweet spot that gives the sound you want. It can require much more patience and work than I'm describing here, yet sometimes you stumble on it instantly by accident.

Amazingly, the synth I find easiest to do this with is a little $45 synth called Oresus. The author decided to make the attack curve a visual icon that you can adjust with your mouse, and for whatever reason I can arrive at this type of sound easier. Gladiator is another synth that is useful, if only because you can see the shape of the low pass filter. Gladiator also ships with an Armin Van Buren style pluck that can be learned from, although I find HCM synthesis limiting.

Last night before I read this thread, I was trying to create this type of sound in Zebra2, which is one of the best VSTs on the planet, but I found it very challenging to do, simply because the range of certain parameters are kind of defined by a synth's UI... so even subtle changes to synth knob range, for example could make a difference from one Virus model to another. Believe it or not, the sounds are there in almost all synths, it's just a matter of unlocking them. I believe any synth is capable of this sound, it's just a matter of how easy it is to get there.. and still to this day that little $45 synth is always my best bet for that category of sound.

All in all it is very much an art more than a science, and I think finding the sweet spot really relies on your ears to find it (and to some extent you might have to adjust slightly after it's in the mix unless you want to build the mix around it).